Byrne/Walsh in Fethard

Mary:

Welcome to ireland Reaching Out!

The Fethard RC records go back to 1806, however, the records are not on the subscription site Roots Ireland. You would have to go to Ancestry.com or FindMyPast to look for Fethard record. I did look at FindMyPast and did not see a baptismal record for Richard Byrne or Jane Dunphy. I did find a Tithe Defaulter list record for a Richard Byrne  https://www.findmypast.ie/transcript?id=IRE%2FENEC007%2F25163   Hopefully you can see the page. It appears that a Richard Byrne in Fethard could not pay his Tithe tax. This Richard had nine children and could not be the Richard who married Jane Dunphy but possibly it was his father or uncle.

Roger McDonnell

Here is an excerpt:

Number of occupied houses110

AffidavitSent to them, would not pay. The County being so disturbed did not think it safe to go to harsh measures which even if done would have proved useless- for no person would purchase anything seized. Your Memorialist begs to state that having a family of nine children and his means but small, and for the last year and a half being deprived of his income, of course, he is heavily in debt which circumstance he hopes will be kindly taken into consultation in his aid of the Relief to be now afforded.

 

Dear Roger,

Thank you so much for your post. I appreciate your efforts and will check out the records you mention. Sorry for my very late reply. Thank you again and take care.

Best regards

Mary Byrne

 

Hello Mary,

From your message it appears we are related.

I have been doing research into my Byrne family ancestors in Co. Tipperary. You grandmother, Mary Jane Walsh, is the daughter of Denis Walsh and Ellen Byrne. Ellen (born January 6, 1864) was the second of five children born to Pierce Byrne and Bridget Hogan in Cahir (marriage April 22, 1860). Ellen's older brother, John Joseph Byrne (born 1861), emigrated to the U.S. around 1880, settling in Chicago. He married Bridget Lenihan in Chicago in 1887. Their first son, Edward P. Burns, was born in Chicago in 1889. Edward P. Burns is my grandfather.

Should you wish more information as to Ellen Byrne and her syblings, please let me know. Also, if you could provide any information about the John Byrne/Mary Jane Walsh family members since their coming to Chicago, I would be appreciative.

Best regards,

Edward M Burns 

Hi, Ed,

Thank you for your message. Needless to say, I am flabbergasted and delighted to meet you online. Your connection might explain my family's "Chicago connection." My frst question is why did the  family change the spelling of your last name? My Aunt Helen Crehan (my Dad's sister) told me that Ellen Byrne was from Bray, but evidently, this is not accurate. She also said it was considered good luck that the surname, Byrne, was part of both sides of the family as my Grandmother, Mary Jane, married a Byrne, my Grandfather, who was also named John Joseph. However, my brother did the big Y DNA test and we do not show that we are truly part of a Byrne clan. I am working on this, as this also surprised me as I had never heard of another surname for my Dad's side other than Byrne.

My Grandfather Byrne's brother, Lar (Laurence) came to the Chicago area first and actually worked in Libertyville, where my Grandfather and eventually, my Dad and brothers worked - on the Samuel Insull estate. My Grandfather came to the U.S. around 1920, before my Grandmother and their children came. My Dad did not come over until 1922 or so (I have the dates, but am writing this without the documentation). All of the family came to the U.S. via New York, but then, traveled to Chicago.

My Great Grandfather Thomas Byrne actually had come to Boston in the 1870's, as he had a foundry in Ireland and came to Boston to work with the Fire Department. At least, this is what I have heard. He married a woman in Boston named Hannah Ryan in 1875, but they returned to Fethard.

Anyway, all of my Dad's siblings grew up on the South Side of Chicago - Thomas, Helen (Ellen Mary), Rose, Hannah (Annie), Mary, and my Dad, Laurence (Lawrence). Helen and Rose ended up moving to California. All are deceased now. According to my Aunt Helen, she spent much time with her Grandma Walsh, as she was smaller and maybe, health compromised, compared to her siblings. She said Grandma Walsh raised her on goat's milk. I think Grandma Walsh was also known as "Nellie" or "Nell." My Aunt Helen really missed her when she came to America. My Aunt Helen was an amazing woman, with a very strong personality and told wonderful (and of course, some sad) stories about Ireland and growing up. She and her husband, Tom Crehan (from Ennis, Co. Clare) had a successful restaurant in Long Beach, CA. My Uncle Tom, worked for the telephone company in Chicago (Illinois Bell, now AT&T) and was the union leader for the employees. My Aunt Annie married James Hayes and had five children. My Aunt Rose married a Navy man, Joseph Olmstead, and settled in San Diego, CA after the World War II. My Aunt Mary married Al Plaza and retired to Maryland, where one of their daughters lived. My Dad, Lawrence, worked for John F. Cuneo of Cuneo Press, in Chicago. He startedf as Mr. Cuneo's secretary and then became his farm and estate manager, overseeing over 3,000 acres in Libertyville, Illinois. This is where my siblings and I grew up and it was a beautiful place to grow up. Mr. Cuneo bought the Insull mansion, after the Depression. Sadly, this estate has been subdivided and developed to the point that it is unrecognizable from what I knew when I was young. I live in Mundelein, which is the town next to Libertyville.

Anyway, there is a brief summary of the family. My question is I wonder if there was any contact  with your Grandfather and my Grandmother's family, once they were here, as your Grandfather's parents would have already have been in Chicago. Maybe there was contact and I just never knew about it. I know my Dad's family grew up in St. Carthage parish on the South side (73rd St.).

Thank you again for contacting me and for the information you have provided. Keep in touch and take care.

Best regards

Mary Byrne

Hi Mary,

I apologize for the delayed response,

I have merged the information you provided with what I found in the Irish records.  I have an interactive webpage map that shows the lineage for the Byrne family back to 1786. The lineage starting with the marriage of Laurence Byrne and Mary Close is quite good but there is some questionability as to these two in the 1780's/90's). Your family information has been entered into the link to Ellen Burns and Denis Walsh.

I tried attaching the file to this note but the format is not permitted. Please contact me at ed.burns@outlook.com and I'll send you my detailed family map.

I have started collecting details as to the Walsh and Coughlan family ancestors/decendents. The Coughlan family is linked to Mary Burns (b. 1866). It appears that the entire family remained in County Tipperary, with the last record indicating that Mary died in 1955 at the Cahir homestead.

My research has picked up the ancestors for John Byrne (b. 1880) and agrees with the info you sent me. I did find some records related to possible Richard Byrne ancestors:
(1) Richard Byrne baptism in Clonmel on 09/12/1790 to parents: Richard Byrne and Mary English
(2) Richard Byrne baptism in Clonmel on 09/03/1801 to parents: Edward Byrne and Honora Ahearn

I am continuing to look for connections to this link of our large family and will develop interactive maps for the Walsh and Coughlan families in the near future.

Should you have any additional information as to Ellen Burns or Denis Walsh (and their children) I would be appreciative. I have a record for Denis' death but nothing for Ellen or, for that matter, any information on what happened to Ellen's parents (Peter Byrne and Bridget Hogan) after 1873.

Last, don't be bothered with the random spelling of Irish family names. Until the late 1800's most residing outside the major cities were illiterate. The records show the spellings of the registrar as heard. Depending on who wrote the names down, they could vary in spelling quite considerably.

Take care,

Ed

Hi, Ed, Sorry for the long delay in my response. I guess I did not have alerts on when I receive messages from this site. Thank you for all of the information you provide. I will email your Outlook address and scan some documents I have from the Cultural Center in Cashel, when I sent an inquiry several years ago. I do have a copy of the prayer card for Ellen Walsh, when she passed away on December 6, 1933, and I will scan that as well. There has to be a connection with one of the Richard Byrnes you mention. I had come across the first individual's record and wrote it down. My great great grandfather was Richard Byrne, but I can only find information on his 1825 marriage to Hannah Dunphy in Fethard. This information is among the documents I will send to you. We always heard that one of my Grandfather's (John) brothers went to Australia. By process of elimination, I think this could only have been either Richard or possibly, Thomas, although Thomas is buried at Rathcoole. Also, I do not understand how the Byrne DNA does not show up in my brother's test. There must have been an adoption somewhere or some other "non-paternal" event. The DNA results match my brother with the name of McLennan or Lennan or Glennan. But I never heard anything about this name in connection to my family. I recently made a new contact with a cousin in Slane. His mother who is still alive, is the daughter of John Walsh, one of my Grandmother Mary Jane Walsh's brothers. My Aunt Helen always referred to John as Jackie and he was one of the three sets of twins in the family, a twin to Christopher, known as Christy. He found my connection on Ancestry. You probably know that one of my Grandmother's brothers, D. P. Walsh, was a relatively famous personage from Fethard for his activities in the war for independence. This cousin, Raymond Gorman, sent me the link to the tribute to D.P. in Fethard, held in 2016, in honor of the 100 year anniversary. D. P. had five children and family members came from all over to the tribute. Raymond said that his Mother and one other sibling are the only remaining living descendants of Denis and Ellen Walsh. Sadly, D.P. was only 50 when he passed away and is buried in Powerstown. Well, I will email you from my personal email account, to your Outlook account and scan some documents for your use. Once again, thank you very much for the information you have provided and sorry for my long delay in responding. Mary Byrne

Hi Mary, Thank you for the update. I am looking forward to your reply. I am continuing to update the Walsh/Byrne family tree from the 1890's to today. I've added the new information that was provided by Ray Gorman. Given his input and other recent research, it appears there may be one/more descendants still alive. Please provide me with details and scanned documents as to your family members and I will add them to the chart. Also, I have made plans to visit Ireland in May 2023. Should there be a surviving relative, I will try to meet up with them. Ed Burns

Hi, Ed, Thank you for your message and Happy New Year! At least, I am more prompt with this response. I, too, have communicated with Raymond Gorman as we matched through the DNA tests on Ancestry. Ray's mother is still alive. She is the daughter of John Walsh, one of the children of Ellen Byrne Walsh and Dennis Walsh. My Aunt Helen always referred to John as Jackie and he was one of the sets of twins, twin to Christy or Christopher. I did scan some documents and sent them to your Outlook email address. I did this right before Christmas. Did you not receive them or my email? I will try to attach them here as a zip file. Also, when you get a chance, can you provide the link to your interactive site with the map, etc.? Thanks much. That is exciting that you are planning to visit Ireland in May. Take care and I will be in touch. Mary

Hi, Ed again, The documents I scanned could not be added on this site as a zipfile, so I will try to add them separately as pdfs. Let me know if they do not come through, but as I said, I did send these to you in December to your ed.burns@outlook.com email address. Thanks, Mary