Looking for Griffin relatives

Sorry! The date of the marriage is 1885. Duh!

Geraldine,

There are 2 sets of marriage records from 1864 onwards. The civil one and the church one. The civil one does not contain mothers names but, by the 1880s, some church ones did. So it might be worth checking with St Peter’s to see if the mother’s name is recorded. It often has the exact townland too. I am not sure how quickly St Peter’s will respond. I know they get a lot of genealogical requests, and they aren’t top priority.

It’s correct that the chapel that your family would have attended in 1911 or thereabouts has been demolished. There are a few bits of wall still in the graveyard, so you can see where it was. A fine replacement chapel was built in the 1930s and is very much in use to this day.

There were no house numbers in Moneyglass at the time of the censuses. The numbers that you see there were the enumerators’ private numbering system (which varied from census to census) and bear no relation to any number or road name the properties may have today. House numbering and road naming was only introduced in Moneyglass (and much of rural Co Antrim) in the 1950s. Prior to that your townland alone was enough to identify you or get a letter delivered. However there is a way of locating them if you particularly want to using Griffiths Valuation and the Valuation Revision records. In this particular case it will involve you going to the local studies section in Ballymena library (ask for the Griffiths map with plot numbers), as the on-line version of Griffiths doesn’t show where the properties were in Moneyglass. Ballymena library has a copy that does show them. You’ll also need reasonable map reading skills to be able to relate that information to a modern map.

Look up the properties you are interested in, in Moneyglass, on the Valuation Revision records for around 1911. You will find the properties marked by plot numbers. For example, the main farm usually has a suffix a, as in 24a, with labourers cottages on the farm, having suffixes b, c & d etc. You then look for those properties on the Griffiths Map in Ballymena library. You then have to work out where the relevant roads are today. Allow plenty of time as I think you will find it quite challenging. But it can be done.

I can work out where one of the properties probably was because the one next door happened to named (most weren’t) and is on the map. There’s Moneyglass Cottage in Griffiths (plot 23) and in 1862, Bernard Griffin was beside that with a farm on plot 24a. Moneyglass Cottage today is on Roguery Rd, on the road from Toome to Ballymena. It’s opposite the main entrance to what was once Moneyglass House, but where nowadays they film some of “Game of Thrones”. You’ll see some sort of artificial castle in the grounds, which is part of the film set. There’s security staff at the entrance and they don’t like you stopping there for obvious reasons. But if you look to the other side of the road at that point, that’s where Moneyglass cottage was/is, and so Bernard must have been close by. For the others you would need to study the Griffiths maps as I have explained above.

In Griffiths Valuation for 1862 there were about 8 Griffin properties in Moneyglass, plus 1 in Toome Village. By the 1911 census there were 4 in Moneyglass.

Griffiths: http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml

Valuation revision records (follow the links): https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/information-and-services/search-archives-online/valuation-revision-books

It’s not part of our policy in Ireland Reaching Out to give out details of living persons, so I can’t directly give you contact details of Griffins in the area today. However from the local telephone directory I can see 7 listed around Moneyglass and the Toome area. The phone book is on-line. Search under post code BT41 (which covers the whole area from Toome to Antrim) and you should see some of them. https://www.ukphonebook.com

Thank you so much for responding. Lots of information. I'm uploading the marriage record for Henry Griffin. I have several Patrick's that might be the father. It's how to figure out which one applies. 

One is married to an Ann Halloran (the spelling varies), and one to a Rose (also given as Sarah) Madden (Madigan). In the 1901 census, Henry has a 'Hugh Griffin' living with him in Pound Street in Belfast. It says he is a boarder, but my grandfather was called Hugh, so I am inclined to believe he was a relative.

Completely off topic, I had this really weird thing happen to me years ago. I am a teacher and I was picking up an order from the EDCO warehouse. The security man signed me in and then he looked at me and asked, 'Are you a Griffin from Toome?' I was wowed because it had always been talked in the family that the Griffins were from Toome and Randalstown - long before we had ever seen the census. I said I was, and he answered, 'I would know that.'

Then I find out all this information. Do you know of any local historian or genealogist we could engage to take us around the area? Sorry to give you so much trouble, but I am really intrigued and I think it might be a more productive visit with a local expert.

Geraldine,

I notice from the marriage transcript that you have sent that it took place at St Mary’s not St Peters. Also that there was apparently a bishop’s dispensation. That’s normally because of consanguinity. The couple may have been cousins. The information you have has come from church records, not the civil certificate, and I notice that whilst the bride’s mother is named, the groom's is not. So there’s probably no point contacting the church in this case as it looks as though she’s not named for some reason.

I looked for a civil marriage certificate on the irishgenealogy site but didn’t see one, which is disappointing. Priests were supposed to copy all marriages to the civil registrar so there was one comprehensive database but it didn’t always happen. In this case we should have got Henry's father’s occupation from the civil certificate which might narrow the search.

Regarding local historians and genealogists, I’d normally offer my own services as I live in Duneane, but I am going to Calgary on Thursday for 3 weeks so won’t be here. There is a man in Randalstown who is very knowledgeable. I don’t know if he’s willing or even if he’s here at the moment but if you e-mail me on Ahoghill@irelandxo.com I’ll give you his name and contact details.

There is a historical society in Randalstown but they don’t have anyone who gives tours etc.

There’s a bit of history attached to the area going back to the United Irishmen. Roddy (Roger) McCorley was hanged on the bridge in Toome and there’s a striking monument to him there. He probably wasn’t a United Irishman at all - just a highwayman, which is really what got him hanged - but we won’t let that get in the way of a good story and a very good traditional song. He’s buried in Duneane Church of Ireland graveyard now (after being buried in the main road by the bridge for 60 years) though his grave is no longer marked.

Looking at the 1901 census, I’d guess that Hugh who was staying with them then was Henry’s unmarried brother. I can see a likely baptism for him on 17.1.1846 in Duneane to Patt & Ann Griffin. I can also see a baptism for a Patt Griffin to the same parents, on 3.2.1842.  I didn’t see Henry’s baptism. However the records only go up to 1862 so if he was born just after that, the priest has the only copy. (Henry’s age varies between the 2 censuses, giving him a year of birth from 1858 to 1862. That was pretty common. No great reliance should be put on ages then. Nobody bothered that much).

There was a Patrick Griffen in Griffiths 1862 who had plot 17 a 12 acre farm in Toome village. His name is deleted around 1863 suggesting he may have died around then. Otherwise, I can find no Patrick Griffen deaths 1864 – 1900 save for Patrick from Moneyglass who died 21.5.1895 aged 56. He was a labourer, and his daughter Mary was the informant. I suspect he had been married to Elizabeth who died 16.1.1888 aged 47. I think he may have been the Patt born in 1842, a likely sibling to your Henry. That daughter Mary appears to have married Daniel Kane of Kilvillis at Moneyglass chapel in 1897. She then disappears. Can’t see them in the 1901 census.

I looked for children born to Patrick Griffen in Moneyglass post 1864 when statutory registration began. I didn’t see any which makes me think Patrick or his wife were dead by then.

There was an Ann Griffen who died 21.3.1899 in Moneyglass aged 95. The informant was Hugh, also of Moneyglass. She’d be a bit old to have been a mother in the late 1850s, though her age might be 15 years adrift, I suppose.

Your problem is separating all the Griffins out. Not an easy task, I suspect. In my experience, most people’s knowledge of their family goes back about 3 generations and then it gets a bit fuzzy. So most people should get back to about 1900 ok, but earlier than that, they are not always so sure.

Hope this helps anyway.

Elwyn, thank you so much. Could we possibly book you for when you return? That would be so good.

Meanwhile, I'm going to try to sort out these 'pesky' Griffins ;-)

Many thanks,

Geraldine.

Geraldine,

I'd be happy to help. If you e-mail me on the ahoghill website I mentioned earlier, we can discuss some dates. I don't know any Griffin families here myself (I am a blow-in) but I have a couple of friends in Toome who were born and brought up here, and I can possibly get some introductions to Griffins from them. Cold calling is not an ideal approach, and so if I can get an introduction or two, that may help.

Elwyn and Wendy, it was good to meet you and thank you for all the knowledge you shared regarding my ancestors home place. I had a lovely day in Duneane. Such a beautiful place. It felt a bit like coming home. Hopefully, with your input, I can further extend what we know of the family tree.

Best wishes, Geraldine.

Hi Geraldine G

I'd be very interested in your research.  The Hugh that was living with your relations in 1901 is my gg uncle.

I'm not sure if this post is still replied to but hope it is.

I look forward to hearing from you 

Gareth

Gareth, I am so sorry that I missed your post!!! Way back in 2018!! I very much hope that you are still monitoring the board. Wonderful that Hugh Griffin  may be the link between us. If you could throw any light on which Duneane Griffin family is the right one would be most welcome. Strange thing is I just got an email update to say another post had been made, but I can't see a new post. Anyhow, I found your post. Very keen to communicate with you, my best regards, Geraldine Griffin.

Evening Geraldine

brillant to be in contact, it might be easier to communucate via email but i'm very excited though I havebt worked out the link between Hugh and Henry.

my email is islandnabrackey at gmail

I look forward to hearing from you

Gareth

Gareth, just checking that your email is islandnabrackey@gmail.com ?

Thanks, Geraldine.