Patrick O'Brien

Hello Kate,

The marriage record for Patrick Brien and Mary Mulvany has enough information in which you can at least uncover circumstantial evidence for Patrick’s baptism. There will not be a birth record for him as the government in Ireland did not record birth, marriage, or death records for all religious denominations until 1864.

What we know from the marriage record, as you pointed out, was that Patrick was 35 when he married, that he was a bachelor before marriage, and that his occupation, though difficult to read, appears to be Shoemaker. Patrick’s father was also named Patrick. Based on his age of 35 in 1887, Patrick would have been born circa 1852, as you also noted. Patrick and Mary were married in the Catholic Chapel at Moynalty.

I found what may be Patrick’s baptism transcription at the Find My Past (FMP) website. The record shows he was baptized in the Moynalty Catholic Parish on 20 February 1853. His father is Pat Brien. The transcription also shows his mother was Nancy “Corpenter,” which I believe would actually be Carpenter.

You can view the FMP baptism transcription for Patrick at the following link: https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=IRE%2FPRS%2FBAP%2F6709320

Patrick’s age in the marriage record is off by 1 year if the FMP transcription pertains to his baptism, but this is not unusual, as ages in marriage records, like census records, can be off by a year or two, and in some cases off by several years.

Attached to the FMP baptism transcription is a link that will take you to a copy of the original Moynalty Catholic Parish baptism record for Patrick Brien. The baptism record is held by the National Library of Ireland.

To access a copy of the original baptism record for Patrick, go to: https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000635250#page/78/mode/1up

There are two facing page of the baptism record. Patrick’s baptism is the 2nd entry down from the top of the left-hand baptism register page. You can enlarge the page by means of round icons in the upper center/ right of the screen. The icons are white with green backgrounds. You can also access the full-screen function by clicking on the last icon on the right with the two arrows pointing northeast and southwest.

The sponsors, or godparents are Peter Brien and Mary Lynch. Peter Brien may be the father, Patrick’s brother. Mary Lynch could have been a friend or relative of Nancy Carpenter.

Kate, if you think this baptism record pertains to your Patrick Brien/O’Brien, please let me know and I’ll send the baptism transcriptions and copies of original baptism records for his older brothers Thomas (1848), and Philip (1851).

Best Wishes,

Dave Boylan

Hello Dave,

Thanks for the response.  I had looked through the Moynalty Parish baptism records from the NLI, but must have overlooked the record.  I haven't used FMP before, but I'm glad you shared the resource with me.  It'll probably make my research a bit easier.  Some of the handwritting in the record books can be a little difficult to read.

I believe the baptism record you provided for Patrick Brien is indeed the Patrick I'm looking for.  No need to send on the other records.  I know where to look know and have what I need.

Thank you for your help!

Kate O'Brien 

You're welcome Kate. Many thanks for writing back. Best of luck with your research.

Dave

Hi Kate,

The baptism record you and Dave have identified above is the records of best fit from a geographical perspective also. There was a Carpenter family based in Feagh lane during the 1800s era. They subsequently moved out to the main road Newcastle to Moynalty. O'Briens house was one of the last houses in Newcastle townland on the main road. Nothing remains of O'Briens house in my life time. Carpenters family in Feagh died out maybe 20 years ago. I've to check newspaper records. There were a few O'Briens in the immediate vicinity of your O’Briens house in the1800s . I was to ask a person in Moynalty who married a descendant of your O'Briens a few years ago, if he knew if and how they were connected, but alas I did not. He is now deceased.  

I find the index on www.rootsireland.ie (subscription website) has a better index for identifying church records and was transcribed in Co Meath in the 1980s. Moynalty parish baptism records commence end of 1830 and marriages in1829. There are some church death records and civil death records for the Moynalty area also indexed here. 

There is no Moynalty church marriage transcript for Patrick Brien to a Carpenter. Moynalty baptism transcripts list 1 child in 1841 to Patk Brien and Mary Carpenter and 8 children from 1843 to 1861 to Patk Brien and Anne Carpenter.  I did not follow into the actual register entries onto the NLI website.

The Moynalty civil death transcripts list an Anne Brien, Newcastle, aged 45, died on 5th Sept 1866 of consumption, registered by Patrick, husband. There is a civil death cert for Patrick Brien of Newcastle, aged 76, died on 17th Oct 1886, stomach cancer, registered by his daughter Elizabeth Brien, viewable on www.irishgenealogy.ie , Kells district. There is no daughter Elizabeth on the baptisms to Patrick Brien and Mary/Anne Carpenter !!  There is another Patrick Brien in Newcastle townland who had a daughter Elizabeth baptised in 1872. But he is alive on the 1901 and 1911 Newcastle census. I need to double check with a neighbour, but I think these are the same O'Briens as the family you are researching.

I have the cancellation books for Newcastle townland on an old computer. I'll look up the Brien property on it and come back to you with any additional useful information.  

From looking at Carpenter baptism records, Thomas Carpenter and Catherine Kangly (Kangley) might be Anne Carpenter Briens parents. There is a daughter Mary Carpenter baptised in 1834 to them. There are a few Carpenter church deaths in a few other townlands near Newcastle. There is a Catherine Carpenter, aged 70, civil death cert in 1898 in Newcastle, spinster, register by a Julia Lynch. With limited church and civil death information recorded, I cannot tie them into any particular family.

Have you much research on your Mulvany line? Mary’s parents lived beside my grandmother Bridget Mulvany on the 1901 census in Skearke. My family moved to Druminisksin townland in 1902. I never could figure out where your Patrick Mulvany was born or which branch of the Mulvany family he is from. During the 1840s,  Mulvany was a common name in the north west corner of the parish. Oral history was they came from Killeeter, Mullagh, Co Cavan (just across the Borora river) originally and are all related.  Have you done a DNA test with any of the main American testing companies to see if we share any very old DNA?

Re Lynch names on baptism sponsors or witnesses – Lynch is a very common name in the area and still is today.  I found from my own family records, neighbours were the baptism sponsors till the older sibling got confirmation and were eligible to be baptism sponsors then.

I don’t appear to be getting e-mail notifications for post to Moynalty message board. Apologies for my late reply. Glad Dave was monitoring it and able to help you..

Kind regards

Catherine McCormack

Moynalty parish liaison

On behalf of Ireland Xo

e-mail – Moynalty@irelandxo.com

Hello Catherine!

Thank you so much for responding with so much information.  Sorry it has taken me a bit to respond.  I haven't had the time to sit down and go through all the details and compare to my notes.  

I've only started my research on my Patrick O'Brien (my ggg-grandfather) who I believe married Nancy Carpenter.  I did find baptism records for 4 of their children from 1848-1861.  I'll have to do some more looking to find the records you've mentioned.  Thank you for providing the additional information about the Carpenters.  

I have more details on the Mulvany's than the O'Brien's in my family.  Did your grandmother, Bridget, marry Peter Mulvany?  The records I found show James Mulvany and Mary Monaghan had 8 children between 1854 and 1870, all baptized in the Parish of Moynalty.  Patrick was the youngest child and I found a (1870) birth record for him from Skearke.  I'll attach the birth and baptism records I have for Patrick Mulvany.  Their only daughter, Mary, is my gg-grandmother.  Is this the same Patrick Mulvany you're looking for?  In my research on the Mulvany's, I know that Thomas, son of James Mulvany and Mary Monaghan, was the Bishop of Meath.  In an article I read about him, a nephew of his was mentioned, Rev. Patrick Mulvany.  However, I'm not sure who his parents are.  I created a profile for Bishop Thomas Mulvany and attached the articles I have that were posted in the Meath Chronicle.  You may have seen that already. 

If email is easiest for you, you can email me at kateaobrien@yahoo.com.

Kate O'Brien