Roche Family from New Ross, Wexford, Ireland

Hello Gillian,

I'm not related but after reading your query at the Ireland XO Message Board, I found baptism records for at least 8 children of John Roach and Elizabeth Wherry. I also uncovered the civil registration birth records for three of the 8 children who were born from 1864 onward. The year 1864 is when the government in Ireland began to record civil registration birth, marriage, and death records for all religious denominations.

I can send all these records to you but it will take some time to compile them all and then present them in a narrative form, with citations, so that you know how and where I found these records. I can start to work on the Roach/Wherry genealogy as soon as I complete another project for people also searching their Irish roots.

If the baptism and birth records mentioned above are of interest to you, please respond to this reply.

With Kind Regards,

Dave Boylan

Gillian:

We currently have a systems problem where a notification is not being sent to the message poster when a comment (like yours) is posted. We expect the problem will be fixed shortly. I'm not sure if retroactive notifications will be generated but we will make sure Mary Ann is made aware of your comment.

Roger McDonnell

Hello Dave

That is most kind of you. I would indeed like to have these baptismal and civil records for the Roche family.

Kind regards

Gillian
 

Thank you for writing back Gillian. I'll start to work on the records as soon as possible. Hopefully I can send you what I've found by this coming weekend, February 16-17. If I have any questions during the research I may get back to you sooner.

All the Best,

Dave

Attached Files

Hello Gillian,

In a previous posting I mentioned that I located the Catholic baptism transcriptions and baptism records for 8 children of John Roche and Elizabeth Wherry. Since that time, after a little more research, I have a question about one of the baptisms and whether or not this child was the child of John Roche and Elizabeth Wherry. This is for the baptism of John, as you’ll see a little later. I also found an additional two baptisms for Roche children that I did not know about when I first replied to your query at the Ireland XO message board. This brings the total to 10 children if John is included in the number.

All the children were baptized in the New Ross Catholic Parish, County Wexford.

I initially uncovered 9 of the 10 baptisms at the Find My Past website. Find My Past has transcribed Irish Catholic Church baptisms, marriages, and burials for all 32 counties for much of the 19th century, and even records from portions of the 18th century. You can access these for free. For example, you can search for baptism transcriptions at the FMP search engine at: http://search.findmypast.co.uk/search-world-records/ireland-roman-catholic-parish-baptisms

To search for Catholic marriages transcriptions at FMP, go to: http://search.findmypast.com/search-world-Records/ireland-roman-catholic-parish-marriages

The FMP burial transcription search engine can be accessed at:  http://search.findmypast.com/search-world-Records/ireland-roman-catholic-parish-burials

Attached to the baptism, marriage, and burial transcriptions at FMP are copies of the original records held by the National Library of Ireland (NLI).

To complete the search for transcriptions youl have to register with FMP. Registration is free as is access to the transcriptions.

I haven’t included the baptism transcriptions in this reply as they take up a lot of room and are under copyright anyway. Instead, I’ve accessed copies of the original baptism records from the National Library of Ireland so that you can view them they were recorded by the parish priest. The first names of most of the  children are recorded in their Latin form.

The names and years of birth for the Roche Children are:

Brigidam (Bridget) 1854

Gulielmum (William), 1855

Maria Annam (Mary Ann), 1858

Brigitam (Bridget) 1861

Joannem (John) 1862 ?

Jacobum (James) 1864

Fanny Teresa, 1867

Sabina Agnus, 1869

Patrick, 1871

Johanna, 1873

____

You’ll notice there are two daughters named Bridget in the list of children above. This means that the Bridget born in 1854 had died, and that her parents named another daughter after her in 1861.

The baptism record for the first-born Bridget Roche can be found at the National Library of Ireland link at:  https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634103#page/194/mode/1up

There are several baptism records on the page. Bridget’s baptism is the 16th entry down from the top of the page. You can enlarge the page by means of round icons in the upper center/ right of the screen. The icons are white with green backgrounds. You can also access the full-screen function by clicking on the last icon on the right with the two arrows pointing northeast and southwest.

The first date before Bridget’s name is her date of baptism, March 19, 1854. The date after her name is the date of birth, March 16. Moving on to the right are the names of her parents, Joannis (John) Roche and Elizabeth Wherry. To the right of the names of the parents are the names of the godparents. The first name of the godfather appears to be Simon. I couldn’t make out his last name. The godmother is Maria Roche, who may have been John’s sister. Many baptism records also record the town where the family was from, but in this case the name of the town where the Roche family lived was not recorded.

The following link will bring you to the baptism record for Gulielmum (William) Roche: https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634103#page/209/mode/1up

His is the 3rd baptism up from the bottom of the register. He was born on December 17, 1855 and baptized on 23 December 1855. His parents are Joannis Roche and Elizabeth Wherry. The godparents are Tomas Hogan and Caterina Kenny.

Maria Annam Roche was born on November 8 and baptized on November 10, 1858. Her baptism is the last entry on the baptism register at: https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634103#page/237/mode/1up

Her parents are recorded as Joannis Roche and Elizb Wherry. The first name of the godfather is Patricus (Patrick), whose last name I couldn’t make out clearly. The godmother is Brigida. Her last name is also difficult to make out.

The second child named Bridget Roche was born on February 11 and baptized on February 13, 1861. Her baptism is the 4th entry down from the top of the baptism register at: https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634103#page/261/mode/1up

Bridget’s parents are Joannis Roche and Elizabeth Wherry. The godparents are Jacobus (James) Roche and Anna Roche, who were likely related to John.

The next combination birth and baptism record is for Joannam “Roach” The priest who recorded the baptism record made a note “Illeg,” after Joannam’s first name. This means “Illegitimate.” The parents are Joannis Roach and Elizabeth “Whitty,” rather than Wherry. This child was born on 28 July 1862 and baptized on 30 July 1862. This record is the 12th entry down the baptism register page at:  https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634103#page/275/mode/1up

The first name of Joannam’s godfather is Joannes, whose last name I couldn’t decipher. The first name of the godmother is Margarita, whose last name I couldn’t make out either. I looked for the baptism of other children of a John Roche and Elizabeth “Whitty” in the New Ross Catholic Parish, but found none, and so I am wondering if the priest who recorded the birth and baptism made an error about Joannam being illegitimate and also made an error with the spelling of Elizabeth’s last name.  The child born and baptized after Joannam is Elenoram Breen, who was also recorded as being “Illeg.” Her mother is Margarita Breen. In illegitimate births and baptism records, the father’s name is not always recorded. But I still cannot be sure if Joannam Roach was the son of your John Roche and Elizabeth Wherry, even though his birth and baptism fit nicely in the chronology of the Roche children births and baptisms in the 1860s.

The next child is Jacobum (James) Roche. He was born on December 1, 1864 and baptized on December 4, 1864. His parents are Joannis Roche and Eliza Wherry. The godparents are Mathew Quigly and Maria Gaffney. James’s baptism is the 9th entry down the baptism register page at:  https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634103#page/296/mode/1up

Fanny Teresa “Roache” was born on 8 April 1867 and baptized on 14 April 1867. The father is Joanne Roache and the mother Elizabeth Wherry. The last name of the godparents appears to be Byrn, but I could be wrong as the writing is faded. The first name of the godfather is Martinus (Martin). I couldn’t make out the first name of the godmother. Fanny Teresa’s birth and baptism are the 9th entry down the  baptism register page at: https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634103#page/320/mode/1up

Salina Agnes Roach was born on 18 November 1869 and baptized on 21 November 1869. Her father is Joannis Roach and her mother Elizabeth Wherry. The godparents are Joannis and Maria Hughes. Salina’s birth and baptism record is the 9th entry up from the bottom of the baptism register at:  https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634103#page/345/mode/1up

The 1871 baptism record for Patrick Roche is very faded and difficult to read. It is so faded that the Find My Past website does not have a transcription for it. I found the baptism record only after having first located Patrick’s civil registration birth record, of which I’ll have more later in this reply. Patrick was born on July 15, 1871 and baptized on July 16, 1871. The parents are JohnRoche and Elizabeth Wherry, whose residence is “Ross,” meaning New Ross. I could not make out the name of the priest who baptized Patrick or the names of the godparents. Patrick’s birth/baptism is on Line Number 251, which is the second to the last entry on the baptism register page at: https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634105#page/25/mode/1up

Johanna Roche was born on 2 November 1873 and baptized on 9 November 1873. Like Patrick’s baptism record, Johanna’s is also very faded, but a little more legible. Her parents are John Roche and Eliza Wherry residing in, “Ross.” I couldn’t make out the name of the priest who baptized Johanna. The names of the  godparents are very faded. The first name of the godfather appears to be James, but I couldn’t tell what his last name was. The name of the godmother is difficult to read but could be Sabina Ryan. Johanna’s birth/baptism entry is on Line 185 of the register, which is the 4th entry down from the top of the page at:  https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634105#page/56/mode/1up

If John Roche and Elizabeth Wherry were married in the New Ross Catholic Parish, there won’t be a marriage record for them as New Ross marriage records only go back to 22 February 1859 and continue until 17 December 1881. Their first child, Bridget, was born in 1854. I also looked for the marriage in other areas of County Wexford and Ireland at the Find My Past website, but didn’t find it.

The baptism records for the New Ross Catholic Parish however, go back to 22 November 1789, and continue to 12 December 1880, though there are a few gaps in the baptism registers. With this information I looked for the individual baptism transcriptions for John Roche and Elizabeth Wherry, with the realization that if I did find the baptisms of two children named John Roche and Elizabeth Wherry, I wouldn’t know for sure if these were your ancestors, as we do not know the names of their parents.

I figured that if John and Elizabeth’s first child was born in 1854, they would have been born sometime in the late 1820s or the early to mid1830s. I found the baptism transcriptions of 7 children named John Roche in the New Ross Catholic Parish. The baptisms go from 1827 to 1835. Without knowing the names of John’s parents, there is no way of knowing which, if any of these children named John Roche would later marry Elizabeth Wherry.

I didn’t find the baptism for an Elizabeth Wherry at all in the New Ross Catholic Parish or anywhere else in County Wexford or the rest of Ireland for the late 1820s or the early to mid1830s.

To see the availability of New Ross Catholic Church baptisms, marriages, and deaths, go to the National Library of Ireland website link at: https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0604

As you’ll see at the above link, deaths in the New Ross Parish are recorded from 14 May 1794 to 15 February 1859, with a large gap of years in the registers from 18 November 1814 to 8 April 1822.

John and Elizabeth’s child Bridget had died young. She was the first-born child, having been born in 1854. But, she would have been deceased by the year 1861 as another child named Bridget was born to John and Elizabeth that year.

I looked for Bridget’s New Ross Parish death transcription at the Find My Past website. I found what may be her death, as the death registers show a Bridget “Roache,” dying on 5 June 1855. Attached to the transcription is a link to a copy of the original death record held by the National Library of Ireland. The death record for Bridget is the 13th entry down from the top of the left-hand death register page at the following link: https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634102#page/74/mode/1up

To the right of Bridget’s name are the initials, “Inf,” which stand for “Infant.”

 

CIVIL REGISTRATION IN IRELAND

I figured that at least three of the Roche children would have civil registration birth records. These children are James 1864, Fanny Teresa 1867, and Sabina Agnus, 1869.

Before getting to the birth records, I’d like to explain a little about civil registration birth, marriage, and death records in Ireland and how you can access them for certain years for free.

The government in Ireland commenced with civil registration of Protestant civil and church marriages on 1 April 1845. Catholic marriages were not recorded by the government at the request of the Catholic Church, as the Catholic hierarchy in Ireland did not want the Anglican government to have lists of its parishioners at that time.

Civil registration of births, marriages, and deaths for all religious denomination in Ireland began on 1 January 1864. This means that any births, marriages, and deaths after 1863, would ostensibly have been recorded by county registrars in their respective Civil Registration Districts. However, because civil registration for all religious denominations was new, not all births, marriages, and deaths were recorded in 1864. Even after 1864 there were births, marriages, and deaths that were not recorded, probably because they were not reported to the local registrars. Births, for example, were traditionally reported to the local registrars, or assistant registrars by the mother, the father, a relative, a midwife, or the head of the workhouse, if the child had been born in a workhouse, as many were in Ireland in the 19th century. Marriages were reported to the registrars by the celebrant or clergyman who married the couple.

Deaths were reported to the registrars either by a relative or a friend of the deceased, or the head of the workhouse, if the person had the misfortune of ending up in the workhouse because they couldn’t support themselves. For more information go to the freeukgenealogy.org website link at: https://www.freeukgenealogy.org.uk/news/2018/01/26/irish-family-history-civil-registration/

The irishgenealogy.ie website has digitized, and placed online for free, copies of original civil birth records from 1864 to 1916. Copies of original marriages are online for the years 1870 to 1941. Copies of original death records are available for the years 1878 to 1966. The irishgenealogy.ie website plans to make available online, copies of original marriage records back to 1845, and death records back to 1864. At present there are indexes of birth from 1864 to 1916, indexes of marriages from 1845 to 1869, and death indexes from 1864 to 1877.

Birth, marriage, and death registers are held by the General Register Office (GRO), with locations in Dublin and Roscommon Town, County Roscommon. The civil records of birth, marriage, and death you can access online from irishgenealogy.ie originally come from the GRO.

I looked for the civil birth record for James in 1864 at the irishgenealogy.ie website, and found it. The birth record shows he was born in New Ross, Wexford on December 1, 1864, which is the same date of his birth in the baptism record. The birth record gives the name of the street or section of New Ross where he was born. It looks like Bullawn. More on this a little later. James’s father is John Roche, residing in New Ross. John’s occupation is difficult to read but looks like “Pigbuyer.” James mother is Elizabeth Roche, formerly Wherry. John Roche the father reported the birth to the local registrar, whose first name was Michael, but whose last name I couldn’t decipher. He recorded the birth in the New Ross Registration District on 23 December 1864. James’s birth record is the first one on the page. The birth record is attached to this reply.

I found there is a Bullawn in New Ross. See the Google Map of Bullawn at: https://is.gd/Zl7k6d

For a Google Street View of Bullawn, go to https://is.gd/QQzzfy

The child born after James was Fanny Teresa. Her baptism record shows she was born on 8 April 1867. Her  civil birth record also shows she was born on 8 April 1867. Her place of birth in New Ross was Cock pit Lane. Her father is John Roche, a “Pig Buyer” residing in Cock pit lane. Her mother is Eliza Roche, formerly Wherry. John Roche reported the birth to the local registrar, who recorded the birth in the New Ross Registration District on 16 April 1867. Fanny’s birth is entry number 197, which is the second to the last birth recorded in the register. Her birth is attached to this reply.

Sabina Agnes was born after Fanny Teresa. Sabina was born on Cock pit Lane, New Ross, 18 November 1869. Her father is John Roche, a Pig Buyer residing in Cock pit Lane. Her mother is Eliza Roche, formerly Wherry. John Roche reported the birth to the local deputy registrar, J. Barrow, who recorded Sabina’s birth in the New Ross Registration District on 4 December 1869. Sabina’s birth is on Line Number 213 and is attached to this reply.

The next birth record is for Patrick Roche. He was born on Cock pit Lane on 15 July 1871. His father is John Roche, a Dealer, residing at Cock pit Lane. Patrick’s mother is Eliza Roche, formerly Wherry. John Roche the father reported the birth to the local deputy registrar, J. Barron, who recorded the birth in the New Ross Registration District on 5 August 1871. Patrick’s birth record is attached to this reply.

The last birth record that I found was for Johanna Roche. She was born on Cock pit Lane on 2 November 1873. Her father is John Roche, a Dealer residing at Cock pit Lane. Her mother is Eliza Roche, formerly Wherry. A lady named Sally Molloney, residing at Bullawn, was present at the birth and reported the birth to the local deputy registrar, J. Barron, who recoded the birth in the New Ross Registration District on 1 December 1873. Johanna’s birth is on Line 58 of the birth registrar. Sally Molloney signed the birth register with an X, meaning she could not write. She was likely the midwife who delivered Johanna. The birth record is attached to this reply.

With further research at the irishgenealogy.ie website I found the civil registration death index for Sabina Roche, recorded in the New Ross Registration District in 1874. She was 4 years old when she died. There are no digitized copies of original death records available at the irishgenealogy.ie website for the years 1864 to 1877, only indexes. But, irishgenealogy.ie plans to make digitized copies of death records available from 1864 in the future.

The death index for Sabina Roche follows:

Name   SABINA ROCHE

Date of Death 1874

Group Registration ID  N/R

SR District/Reg Area  New Ross

Deceased Age at Death 4

Returns Year   1874

Returns Quarter 3

Returns Volume No 14

Returns Page No 484

____

If you would like to obtain a copy of Sabina’s death record, go to the following link at irishgenealogy.ie for information: https://is.gd/flo5kE

I then uncovered the death record for Elizabeth’s husband, John Roche. His death record is attached to this reply. He died at Cock pit Lane on 19 November 1878. His death record shows that he was married and was 44 years old at the time of death, placing his year of birth circa 1834. His occupation was Pig Buyer. The cause of death was, “Consumption 1 Year. No Medical Attendant.” The person who was present at the death and who reported the death to the deputy registrar was John’s wife, Eliza J. Roche of Cock pit Lane. This is the first record that shows that Eliza’s middle initial was J, which may have stood for Jane or perhaps Julia. The deputy registrar, J. Barron, recorded John’s death in the New Ross Registration District on 9 December 1878. 

I couldn’t find a Cock pit Lane or Cockpit Lane on a Google Map of New Ross, but did learn from the National Inventory of Architectural Heritage/Buildings of Ireland website, that Houghton Place in New Ross was formerly called Cockpit Lane. A Google Map shows that Haughton Place is only 1/10th of mile from Bullawn: https://is.gd/hrCEDQ

If you recall, James Roche was born on Bullawn (Street) in 1864.

For a Google Street View of Haughton Place and the gatehouse of the old Haughton Fever Hospital, built in 1809, go to:  https://is.gd/xdPzmc

You can view another photo and read more about the fever hospital on Cockpit Lane/Haughton Place at the National Inventory of Architectural Heritage/Buildings of Ireland website at: http://www.buildingsofireland.ie/niah/search.jsp?type=record&county=WX&regno=15605185

You can also view the location of  “Haughton’s Fever Hospital” on a color ordnance Survey Map of New Ross printed between 1837 and 1841. The map comes from the GeoHive website link at: http://bit.ly/2TThXkD

The National Inventory of Architectural Heritage/Buildings of Ireland website shows there were two Catholic Churches or chapels in New Ross not far from Haughton Place (Cockpit Lane) and also near Bullawn. One of the churches is the former Saint Michael’s Catholic Chapel, now Saint Michael’s Theater, located on South Street. You can view a photo of the old church read about the architectural details of the church at the Buildings of Ireland link at: http://www.buildingsofireland.ie/niah/search.jsp?type=record&county=WX&regno=15605062

For additional photos of Saint Michael’s go to: http://www.buildingsofireland.ie/niah/search.jsp?type=images&county=WX&regno=15605062

For a Google Map of Saint Michael’s Theatre Centre for the Arts on South Street, showing that it is located ½ mile from Bullawn, see: https://is.gd/QfuyYc

For a Google Street View of Saint Michael’s Theatre go to: https://is.gd/NIij2z

You can also view the location of the “R.C. Chapel” (Saint Michael’s) on South Street in New Ross on an Ordnance Survey Map printed between 1837 and 1841. The map comes from the GeoHive website and can be viewed at: http://bit.ly/2TUzrNx

The R.C. Chapel on the map you just accessed is just north of the Police Station and the “New Church,” to the right of the River Barrow, the center of which is the dividing line between County Wexford and County Kilkenny. 

The second Catholic Church open to parishioners when the Roche family lived in New Ross is the Church of the Immaculate Conception. This church is in closer proximity to Cockpit Lane (Haughton Place) and Bullawn than Saint Michael’s was, and is located at High Hill Street and Chapel Lane. The church was opened in 1835. For a photo and to read about the architectural heritage of the church go to the Buildings of Ireland website link: http://www.buildingsofireland.ie/niah/search.jsp?type=record&county=WX&regno=15605224

For a Google Map of High Hill Street and Chapel Lane, which also shows that High Hill Street runs into Bullawn, go to: https://is.gd/TqJNGw

For a Google Street View of the Church of the Immaculate Conception, see: https://is.gd/QTuNF2

You can also view the “R.C. Chapel,” (Church of the Immaculate Conception) on an Ordnance Survey Map of New Ross from the 1837 to 1841 time period at: http://bit.ly/2TTNoet

The R.C. Chapel is just to the left of Saint Mary’s Church of Ireland, which is labeled, “Church,” on the Ordnance Survey Map.

Gillian, the baptism records from the National Library of Ireland do not specify which church the Roche children were baptized in, unfortunately. Both churches were open in New Ross at the time of the Roche baptisms. And, as noted earlier, both churches were in close proximity to Bullawn and the former Cockpit Lane, now Haughton Place. But, the Church of the Immaculate Conception was the closets of the two to Bullawn and Cockpit Lane, and so it is my guess that the Roche children were baptized there.

Knowing that the Roche family had lived in streets in New Ross called Bullawn and Cock pit Lane, I next wanted to see if I could find John Roche leasing a house on Cockpit Lane in an Irish property tax record known as Griffiths Valuation. Griffiths Valuation was enumerated in the 32 counties of Ireland between 1847 and 1864. The valuation for County Wexford was completed by the year 1853.

Unlike a census, Griffiths Valuation did not enumerate individual members of a family, such as husband, wife, and children in a household residence. Those named in the valuation were individuals who leased property. Each person who paid to lease the property was called an “Occupier.” The other person listed in Griffiths Valuation was the person who owned the property, or who worked as the middleman for the owner. This person was called the “Immediate Lessor.”

You can access Griffiths Valuation transcriptions and original copies for free at the askaboutireland website link at: http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml

I found John Roche in Griffiths Valuation at the askaboutireland website. See the transcription below:

No. and Letters of Reference to Map: 3

Civil Parish: St. Mary’s

Townland: New Ross

Street: Cockpit-Lane

Occupier: John Roche

Immediate Lessor: Edward Carr

Description of Tenement: House

Area of Land: 0 Acres, 0 Roods, 0  Perches

Rateable Annual Valuation of Land:  Pounds -

Rateable Annual Valuation of Buildings: 1 Pound

Total Annual Valuation of Rateable Property: 1 Pound

____         

Griffiths Valuation shows that John Roche leased a house and no land from an Immediate Lessor named Edward Carr at 3 Cock-pit Lane. Edward Carr may have been the middleman rather than the owner of the house. The house was valued at 1 Pound. The total valuation was of the property was the value of the house at 1 Pound. John would not have paid a tax on the house as only those properties valued over 5 Pounds were subject to the tax. In this case the owner of the house would pay the tax.

The Griffiths Valuation transcription below shows that a James Roche also leased a house from Edward Carr. The location is 2 Cock-pit Lane. James’s house was also valued at 1 Pound. James was likely related to John Roche:

No. and Letters of Reference to Map: 2

Civil Parish: St. Mary’s

Townland: New Ross

Street: Cockpit-Lane

Occupier: James Roche

Immediate Lessor: Edward Carr

Description of Tenement: House

Area of Land: 0 Acres, 0 Roods, 0  Perches

Rateable Annual Valuation of Land:  Pounds -

Rateable Annual Valuation of Buildings: 1 Pound

Total Annual Valuation of Rateable Property: 1 Pound

____         

I looked for but did not find any Occupiers named Wherry leasing property in New Ross in Grififths Valuation.

Moving ahead in time I now wanted to see if I could find Elizabeth/Eliza Roche in the 1901 and 1911 Irish census enumerations in New Ross. To do this I went to the National Archives of Ireland website link at: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/

The 1901 census shows that 56 year old Eliza J. Roche and two of her adult daughters are living at house 10, Cockpit Lane, New Ross. House 10 is not the house number on Cockpit Lane, but the number on the census form, which is Census Form B. Eliza’s occupation is shown to be a “Lace Mistress.” She could read and write and was born in County Wexford. She is also shown to be a widow. The oldest daughter in the household is 28 year old Frances (Fanny) who was born in County Wexford. No occupation is listed for her. The census shows that she could read and write and that she was not married. The youngest daughter is 24 year old Julia, also born in County Wexford. No occupation is listed for her either. She too was not married.

The 1901 census transcription for Eliza Roche and her daughters is below:

1901 Census of Ireland

Residents of a house 10 in Cockpit Lane (New Ross Urban, Wexford)

Surname  Forename   Age   Sex  Relation to head  Religion    Birthplace   Occupation   Literacy   Irish Language   Marital Status   Specified Illnesses 

Roche  Eliza J  56  Female   Head of Family Roman Catholic  Co Wexford   Lace Mistress  Read and write Widow

Roche  Frances 28  Female  Daughter  Roman Catholic   Co Wexford   Read and write   Not Married

Roche  Julia 24  Female  Daughter  Roman Catholic   Co Wexford   Read and write   Not Married

____

To view a copy of the original 1901 census for the Roche household, go to the National Archives of Ireland website link at: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai001288619

I hadn’t come across Julia Roche in any records before, though you did mention her in your query to the Ireland XO message board. The 1901 census prompted me to look for her baptism at the Find My Past website and her civil registration birth record at the irishgenealogy.ie website. I found neither her baptism or her birth record after extensive research at both websites. Her age of 24 in 1901 places her year of birth circa 1877. I also looked for her birth and baptism records at Ancestry.com and at the FamilySearch website, but again I did not find them. The last birth record I found for children of John Roche and Elizabeth Wherry is Johanna, who was born in 1873. I am wondering if perhaps Julia had been adopted. Do you have any further information about Julia’s birth and baptism.

Also concerning the 1901 census, 28 year old Frances would be Fanny Teresa, who was born in 1867. Her age of 28 in the 1901 census is not correct as this would place her year of birth circa 1873. Ages in the 1901 and 1911 census enumerations are often inaccurate, and sometimes off the age by several years, as you’ll see coming up in the 1911 census.

In the 1911 census transcription below you’ll see that Eliza J. Roche is now 73 years old. In the 1901 census she was 56, which shows you can’t trust ages or any numbers in the census returns without further research. The 1911 census shows that Eliza and her family are in house 3, Cockpit Lane, New Ross. The census also shows that Eliza was born in County Wexford, and was a “Lace Maker” who could read and write and who was a widow. You’ll see the numbers 52, 2, and 2 in the transcription below crossed out. I crossed these numbers out as that’s how they are in a copy of the original 1911 census which you can access later. In the transcription from the National Archives of Ireland the numbers are not crossed out.

The oldest of Eliza’s children in the household is 34 year old “Panny” Roche. This is also a transcription error, as this would be Fanny, though when you access a copy of the original census return you’ll see her first name does look like it is spelled as “Panny.” Fanny Wall was born in County Wexford. She could read and  write and she was single.

The next daughter in the census is 33 year old Julia Wall who was born in County Wexford, and who could read and write. The census shows she was married. The numbers 6, 2, and 2 mean that as of 1911 she had been married for 6 years and in that time had 2  children  with 2 of the children still living. You had mentioned in your Ireland XO query that Julia had married a fellow with the surname Wall. Julia’s husband is not in the household. Julia’s two children are 5 year old Mary Ester and John Lenord Wall, born in County Wexford. They are recorded as Grand Daughter and Grand Son, meaning they are grandchildren of the head of the household, Eliza J. Roche. The 1911 census transcription is below:

1911 Census of Ireland

Residents of a house 3 in Cockpit Lane (New Ross, Urban, Wexford)

Surname  Forename   Age   Sex  Relation to head  Religion    Birthplace   Occupation   Literacy   Irish Language   Marital Status   Specified Illnesses  Years Married   Children Born  Children Living

Roche  Eliza  J 73  Female  Head of Family  R Catholic  Co Wexford  Lace Maker  Read and write   Widow 52  2   2

Roche  Panny  34  Female  Daughter  R   Catholic  Co Wexford    Read and write   Single 

Wall  Julia  33 Female  Daughter  R Catholic  Co Wexford   Read and write   Married  6     2       2

Wall  Mary Ester  5   Female  Grand Daughter   R Catholic  Co Wexford   Ditto       Single  

Wall  John Lenord  3  Male    Grand Son  R Catholic   Co Wexford               Ditto   Single

____

To view a copy of the original 1911 census for the household of Eliza J. Roche, go to the National Archives of Ireland website link at: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai003597773/

After finding the 1911 census for the Roche family I looked for the civil marriage record of Julia Roche and her husband at the irishgenealogy.ie website. I found the marriage showing that James Wall and Julia M. Roche were married in the Roman Catholic Chapel of St. Mary’s, New Ross, on June 5, 1905. Both James and Julia are shown to have been of “full age” when they married. At the time of marriage James’s occupation was “Clerk.” His residence at the time of marriage is in Carrick on Suir, which is in County Tipperary on the northern border with County Waterford. The marriage record further shows that James’s father was John Wall whose occupation was “Merchant.”

The marriage record shows that Julia was a “Spinster” at the time of marriage, which means she hadn’t been married before. Her occupation is, “Croquet Mistress,” which makes me wonder if she taught croquet at a local school. Her residence at the time of marriage was New Ross. Her father is listed as John Roche, a “Dealer.” By this time however, her father John was deceased.

The priest who married James and Julia was James Prandy. The witnesses to the marriage were J. Lawrence and Mary O’Driscoll. The marriage record is attached to this reply.

The marriage record shows that James Wall and Julia Roche were married at the chapel of Saint Mary’s. I believe this is the present day Church of Saint Mary and Saint Michael, located at Robert Street and Cross Street, formerly Cross Lane. This would not have been the church however where the Roche children were baptized in the 1850s, 60s and 70s, as the National Inventory of Architectural Heritage/Buildings of Ireland website notes that the church opened in 1902, just three years before James and Julia were married. See a photo and read an architectural description of the church at the Buildings of Ireland website link: http://www.buildingsofireland.ie/niah/search.jsp?type=record&county=WX&regno=15605113

A Google Map shows that the church is a half mile southwest of Haughton Place, formerly Cockpit Lane: https://is.gd/Ib6jhl

For a Google Street View of the Church of Saint Mary and Saint Michael off Cross Street, see: https://is.gd/BTeG1Y

For a Google Street View of the church from Robert Street see: https://is.gd/MeK5ip

After seeing that Eliza J. Roche was in the 1911 census, I looked for her civil registration death record at the irishgenealogy.ie website, and found it. The death record shows that Eliza Jane Roche died at Haughton Place (which is the former Cockpit Lane), on 17 April 1916. At the time of death she was a 75 year old widow, whose occupation was listed as, “Old age Pensioner.” The cause of death was, “Cardiac Debility 2 Months. Certified. The person who was present at the death and who reported the death to the assistant registrar was Eliza’s daughter, Julia Wall, of Haughton Place. L. Barrow, the assistant registrar recorded Eliza’s death in the New Ross Registration District on 20 April 1916. Her death is on Line Number 450 of the death register. The death record is attached to this reply.

I suspect Eliza was older than 75 when she died in 1916, as she would have been born circa 1841. Her first child Bridget was born in 1854. Eliza would have been 13 years old in 1854

I also, looked for the death of Julia Wall and found it. Julia died at St. Mary’s Terrace on March 21, 1944. At the time of death she was 69 years old and a widow. The cause of death was “Chronic Endoesiditis 3 Months. Certified.” This is a viral infection spelled Aendoiditis. The person who was present at the death and who reported the death to the local assistant registrar was her daughter, Mary Esther Wall of St. Mary’s Terrace, New Ross. The death was recorded in the New Ross Registration District on 25 March 1944 by the assistant registrar, L. Barrow. Her death record is on Line Number 16,  and is attached to this reply.

I also located the death record for a Frances Roche, though I’m not sure if this death refers to Fanny, the daughter of John Roche and Elizabeth/Eliza Wherry. The death took place on 6 October 1956 in what appears to be New Ross, but it’s hard to tell because the handwriting is very bad.  At the time of death Frances was 78 years old and single. The cause of death looks like, “Myocardial Degeneration 4 Years. Certified.” The person who was present at the death and who reported the death to the local registrar was Frances’s nephew, Thomas Foley, whose residence I couldn’t make out. The death was recorded in the New Ross Registration District on October 17, 1956 by the registrar whose name I couldn’t decipher. Frances’s death  is on Line Number 124, and is attached to this reply.

There are 10 attachments with this reply. They include:

James Roche 1864 birth

Fanny Roche 1867 birth

Sabina Agnes Roche 1869 birth

Patrick Roche 1871 birth

Johanna Roche 1873 birth

John Roche 1878 death

Julia Roche 1905 marriage

Eliza Jane Roche 1916 death

Julia Wall 1944 death

Frances Roche 1956 death

____

Gillian, you may already have a lot of information concerning your Roche ancestors. If you do you can compare your records with the ones I found and see if they match. If you don’t have a lot of the records I found, I recommend that you go over each record in this reply to see if you agree that these records pertain to your Roche and collateral lines in New Ross, Wexford.

It took more time to finish the research than I anticipated because I wanted you to access and show you  maps of sections of New Ross that would have been familiar to your Roche ancestors. I also tried to find more information about Julia Wall, which took a lot of additional time, but which produced no results about her birth and baptism. Have you found anything about her birth or baptism?

With Very Best Wishes,

Dave Boylan

Dave:

Great research work!

Roger McDonnell

Hello Dave

I am very sorry it has taken me a couple of days to reply - I found your message this morning in my "Junk" file!

I am amazed and thrilled at your research and willingness to share. This is above and beyond what I had expected and I am most grateful.  It will take me a few days to digest this and dowload the PDF's.  Fortunately I can access Find My Past at my local Library, which is a bonus.

This message seems almost inadequate in response to the work you have put into finding this information for me.

Absolutley Brilliant!!!

Kind regards

Gillian

You're welcome Gillian, and many thanks for the kind words.

All the Best.

Dave

Davepat,

I have been in contact with Gillian and he directed me to this comment.  I thought I had replied a couple of weeks ago but I don't see my response here. I just wanted to thank you for all the work you did in finding so much information about the Roche family. It is amazing! I had been told all the Irish records had been stored in one place and that it burned so I was not expecting to find much. What a thrill to see all the information you were able to find. I have seen some of these names indexed but didn't know how to look at the actual record so I couldn't verify they were actually from my family.

Thank you again for all your work

Mary Ann 

 

You're welcome Mary Ann, and thank you.

Very Best Wishes,

Dave