Visit to County Tipperary

Dear Chris:

Many thanks for your email and news about your upcoming visit.  We have some volunteers in the Nenagh and Cahir areas and I will be forwarding your post to them.  If you get the chance, it would be great if you could add details about the family names that you are researching.  (I assume that one of them is Power?)

If you have any questions, please let me know.

Kind regards,

Jane

Chris,

I am originally from Caher and now reside in Portlaoise, when you come to Ireland I will travel down and show you around Caher , Ballylooby and New Inn & Knockgraffon . I have responded to queries from all these parishes and I am familiar with the available records for those parishes.

New Inn & Knockgraffon  are in the Dioceses of Cashel and Emly and unfortunately their Church record  are not available on line in a searchable form.However they are available on line in their original form on Parish Registers at National Library of Ireland.

If you give me a few days notice and if your ancestors came from any of these locations we can probably identify  the location from where the came. If you have any factual records we can easily build on that base but if the information is speculative  I can show you the main features of each of those Three Parishes.

 Regards

 Tom Hussey (native of Caher) 

Thanks Tom for your reply. I feel it's a big ask for you to come down from Portlaoise ... but then local knowledge on the ground is exactly what I need. I've subscribed to RootsIreland and Ancestry on and off over the years, and I've collected hundreds of individual records and family groups. Not much comes anywhere near "definite" but I've homed in on one or two "best fits".

My father's father, Thomas Power, was born in Nenagh in 1862 to Maurice & Sara Cunningham. My mother's mother was London Irish and her people came, according to the UK Census returns, from County Limerick. Her grandparents married in Rathkeale in 1855. And, apart from an Irish Census return from Youghal in 1901 showing my likely paternal grandfather, Maurice Power, from County Waterford and my paternal grandmother, Sarah Cunningham, from County Tipperary, they are the only FACTS.

The rest is speculation, based all too often on an absence of contrary evidence. There is only one recorded marriage of Maurice Power and Sara Cunningham - in Portlaw in 1854. There seem to have been other children between 1855-1861, and then nothing ... until a Maurice & Sara Power had Thomas, my grandfather, in Nenagh in 1862 - after which, nothing. So, that's a big problem - why the sudden relocation?

If all that is true then Maurice was most likely born in Ballylooby in 1833 to Patrick & Ellena Power. Sara Cunningham should be more distinctive, but there are two possibles, both born in 1833 - one in Cahir to William Cunningham & Mary Keating, the other in New Inn & Knockgraffon to Thomas Cunningham & Alice Donnell.

I wouldn't have expected my grandmother's "Limerick" line to feature in the County Tipperary connection, except for one tantalising possibility. I've never been able to find in County Limerick a satisfactory match for my maternal g2-grandparents Patrick Daly (or Dealy/Daily) and Margaret ---. But I have found one in Cahir (Patrick Dealy & Margaret Scanlon), whose children seem to fit the right names in the right order. This is the only recorded match that fits, but Tipperary is not Limerick!

And that's it. Sorry to have rambled on. My wife and I will be in Youghal from Monday 1 July to Wednesday 3 July, and in Limerick on Friday 5 July and Saturday 6 July. That's a very generous offer you made, and if you are willing and able to meet us then I would be most grateful for any light you can throw on these "brick walls" that have taunted me for so long.

With best wishes,

Chris Power (Newport, Wales)

Chris,

I am available on 1,2,3.5,6th July and if any of those days suits you I can meet you is Caher early some morning ( c..09.00am) and we can go through your records or go and view the main features of the three parishes.Perhaps you can nominate the date and time.

Regards

Tom Hussey

Sorry Tom for the delayed reply. I needed to contact the B&B to find out their breakfast times. They start at 8am, so allowing an hour for breakfast and an hour for the journey we could be in Cahir by around 10am. Where to meet?

As for the day, perhaps Monday 1 July is best. It allows time for any possible follow-ups. Our schedule in Youghal is flexible: a visit to North Abbey Cemetery (my great-grandparents were living in Youghal in 1901 in their 70s and I've never identified time or place for either death); and then to play the tourist for a while. Too often we're rushing around trying to fit in too much. As our own Newport poet once said, "What is this life if, full of care, we have no time to stand and stare?" (It's the only line anyone ever remembers, but it's a good one.)

Thank you again for your interest.

Chris

Chris,

I will meet ye at Cahir House Hotel near the front entrance at c.10.00am on Monday 1st July. There is car parking at the back of the hotel.

 Looking forward to seeing ye in my home town.

Regards

Tom

Thanks Tom - we're looking forward to it.

Chris

Hi Chris and also Tom,
This is from a ship list of Tipperary people going to Australia. The names are the same as yours or maybe not.
Just in case.

POWER Maurice 1864 20 Ballylooby Michael / Ann both dead.  Paid for by his Brother = Edmond Power . Ship = Wanata
POWER Maurice 1865 27 Scarse ? arf ? Patrick / Ellen - both dead . Sisters = Margaret & Mary in Newcastle . (Mary Paid) Ship = Trebolgan

Margot
 

Thanks Margot for that info. If either of these were the Maurice I'm speculating then it would rule them out as my great-grandfather. Such info, though not welcome, is nevertheless useful and necessary in eliminating false speculations. However, in spite of the similarities in names they don't seem to tally regarding age or siblings. The commonality and coincidence of names is a minefield in this kind of research. So, for now, my speculative great-grandfather Maurice from Ballylooby survives! But it would be nice to have something more positive to corroborate.

Thanks again,

Chris

Thanks Tom for giving up so much of your time and expertise today. You've given me food for thought, especially the importance of proximity and ease of transport (eg roads/rivers) in suggesting likely marriage candidates. (And your vast local knowledge of Cahir makes me well content to have ancestral connections there.)

hi Chris:

So glad that you got to meet Tom who is one of our very best volunteers with an encyclopedic knowledge of the Caher area!  Please keep us posted as to the progress of our search and please consider writing a short piece about your trip and our assistance if you wish.  You can send the piece to:  info@irelandxo.com and mark it as a "Connection Story".  you may also wish to add an Ancestor Profile to our database under the XO Chronicles  You can do so via this link:  https://irelandxo.com/ireland-xo/history-and-genealogy/ancestor-database

All the best,

Jane

Chris,

 I hope ye had an enjoyable holiday and that your trip to Caher helped you progress your search.

I was reviewing your records and I think that the solution is contained in the files you already have.The Baptismal record for Maurice Power  Caher 08 Feb 1834 at Cahir  is incorrectly recorded as County Waterford and no  record references County Tipperary.When Maurice was getting married in Portlaw he would have had a copy of his baptismal certificate which incorrectly shown Waterford as the County of birth even though Waterford was only the Diocesan headquarters for Cahir.There were no civil records at that time but the state accepted the Church records as a proxy.

I have attached a document relating to CAHER RECORDS and the associated issues with each data set ,you may find it helpful.

Regards

Tom Hussey

Thanks again Tom - the jury is still out on Ballylooby Maurice or Cahir Maurice. Cahir Maurice wins out on proximity IF Cahir Sarah is his future bride. Ballylooby Maurice wins out because of the Portlaw connection AND by his mother's name Helen matching his first grandchild child (from Thomas). In either case both Cahir Sarah and Knockgraffon Sarah are neither of them too far afield for their paths to have crossed. A slight inclination towards Knockgraffon Sarah is that Cahir Sarah was a twin and we have no subsequent incidence of twins in the family, but maybe that's not a very strong argument.

I'm embarking on a trawl though the Cashel & Emly unindexed records, recording all instances of Donnel/Daniel, Cunningham, or Power. I've started with Knockgraffon marriages, but I'll no doubt have to widen the search to neighbouring parishes if nothing turns up.

We traveled home via Cahir - Swiss Cottage (if my Daly ancestors came from Cahir they might, as builders and labourers, have been involved at that time in the construction) - and drove through New Inn & Knockgraffon just to get a feel for the territory. We also visited the Dunbrody famine ship in New Ross. I had always assumed that my relatives, Power and Daly, had emigrated via Cobh, but it now seems equally likely that they came via New Ross.

Anyway, thanks again. All the best,

Chris