McNEILL and McKENDRY from Cushendun

Jackie,

Griffiths Valuation shows 2 McNeill farms in Tornamoney in 1861. So they may well be related. One was held by Archibald, the other was held by John. John’s farm was 30 acres and was plot no 7 in Griffiths. The Valuation revision records show it changing to Eliza in 1864/65 and then to Alexander in 1866.  So it looks as though John died around 1864, the farm then went to his widow. She died by 1866 and then it went to Alexander who is presumably her son.

http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml

https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/proni

You can use the maps on Griffiths Valuation to locate the farm today. Use the Griffiths places option and enter Tornamoney. The farm is off the Torr Rd, on a dead end lane to Tornamoney point. You will find that the farm has a rather splendid location with magnificent views overlooking Torr Head and across to Scotland, except when it’s raining, of course.  You can easily see the Mull of Kintyre and up past Rathlin Island to the Hebridean islands of Islay and Jura. On a good day you can see the famous distilleries at the bottom of Islay (Laphroaig, Ardbeg and Lagavulin). They are painted white and stand out. Your McNeill ancestors probably originated in that part of Scotland and will have come Antrim at the behest of the McDonnells, probably in the 1400s or 1500s I would say. They may originally have been gallowglass (mercenaries). Many of the people in that part of Ireland arrived then, though of course folk have been going backwards and forwards between that part of Ireland and Scotland since the last ice age retreated.

There appears to be 49 McNeill gravestones in St Patrick’s churchyard at Ballyvoy (on the road to Ballycastle). I suspect your family may be there. See this site:

http://www.discovereverafter.com/search/

Alexander died 31.3.1919 at Tornamoney, aged 89. Son John was the informant.

Spotted this probate abstract on the PRONI wills site. The full will is held in PRONI in Belfast. (Free to view there).

McNeill John of Tornamoney county Antrim retired farmer died 30 March 1945 at Coolranny county Antrim Probate Belfast 3 January to John McNeill labourer. Effects £235.

Elwyn thank you so much! Wonderful to get all this info. Will now see how I go searching these web sites. I appreciate all you help.

Jackie

Jackie:

I suspect (but cannot confirm) that my ancestor, Margaret (McKendry) Hamilton, originated in or near Cushenden. For details, please see...

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~streeter/hamilton.pdf

In any case, you will absolutely love driving the Antrim Coast Road! Enjoy your trip

Perry

Perry Streeter

www.perrystreeter.com

Perry wonderful to receive you message. What a lot of work you have done! I agree there could well be a connection. Have done very little work on the McKendry’s so value having your information. There appeared to be so many in the Parish of Culfeightrin, where I suspect Catherine came from. Thought McNeill would be easier for me to start with.

Thank you so much,

Jackie Williams 

Hi Jackie,   

I understand that a Hugh Mc Neill, from Altagore in Cushendun married a Jane Mc Neill from Tournamoney/Tornamoney, Cushendun. Hugh Mc Neill passed away c. 1880. I believe that Jane may have had siblings called Ann and John. I am a descendant of Hugh and Jane. 

From my own casual meanderings into my family history:

The 1660 Hearth Money Roll, Item 408, places a Daniell McNeale at Tornamoney.

The 1803 Agricultural Census of Antrim, Items 4291-93, places Alexander, Daniel and John Mc Neill at Tornamoney.

Food for thought...

Regards,

Monica.

Monica, thank you for sharing your information – that’s awesome!

My records show Jane McNeill (Alexander McNeill’s sister) did marry Hugh McNeill of Altagore. I have their children as Daniel (who probably would have looked after the farm when Hugh passed away), Kate, Anne, Hugh, Patrick, Alexander and Archy. Don’t have John listed.  

Monica, I haven’t done any research on this family, it’s just what has been given to me. Hope it’s correct.

Regards & thank you,

 Jackie

The National Library of Ireland has provided free access to digital images of the Catholic Parish Registers for Culfeightrin:

Culfeightrin

Diocese of Down and Connor | County of Antrim

Variant forms of parish name:

Ennispollan

Culfeightrin (with Cushendun and Ennispollan)

Culfreightrin

Craiga

Culfreightrin and Cushendun

http://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0408

Ancestry.com also has these records available but my limited experience with them suggests that they are not as well indexed and searchable as one would hope.

Per my previous post (scroll up), using these records, I have just confirmed that Dennis and Margaret (McKendry) Hamilton of West Union, Steuben County, New York, USA were natives of Culfeightrin.

Perry, thank you for letting me know about the above NLI Catholic digital images. I will certainly be looking through these.

Have just returned after a fabulous 8 days in Ireland. Loved driving along Torr Road & getting a feel for the place. Didn’t find out much more on my family but certainly met some wonderful people. Am now aware to not just look at McKendry but also McHenry & McKindry, as I’m sure you know.

Thanks again,

Jackie

Hamilton, McKendry & McNeill of Tornamoney

As an update to my previous postings in this thread…

I descend from Patrick and Mary (Laverty) Hamilton of the Roman Catholic Parish of Cushendun within the Civil Parish of Culfeightrin. Patrick and Mary had seven children born between 1796 and 1828; six of them have been identified and most of them were born before the surviving Catholic parish registers commence in 1825:

https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0409

https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0408

As I recently learned, in 1831, the only Patrick Hamilton identified in the Tithe Applotment Records for the Civil Parish of Culfeightrin was “Pat.” in “Turnamoany”:

http://www.irishgenealogyhub.com/antrim/tithe-applotments/culfeightrin-parish.php 

In 1831, the other Hamilton households of “Turnamoany” were headed by Alexr. [Alexander] and Archd. [Archibald]. As residents of the same small townland, how were Alexander, Archibald and Patrick Hamilton related to each other? In 1831, the only McNeill household in “Turnamoany” was that of Alexr. [Alexander],

“Turnamoany” is undoubtedly a phonetic variation of Tornamoney:

https://www.townlands.ie/antrim/cary/culfeightrin/tornamoney/

In 1852, Mary (Laverty) Hamilton and most of her children settled in the Town of West Union, Steuben County, New York, in the United States. From census records, Mary (Laverty) Hamilton was born about 1775 so Patrick Hamilton was probably born about 1771. Patrick probably died before the family left Ireland but it is also possible that he died outside of Ireland before the enumeration of the New York State Census in 1855. In West Union, the Hamilton-Laverty family was closely associated with a McNeill family that I suspect may have also originated in Tornamoney or nearby.

In the 1803 Agricultural Census of Antrim,  the only Hamilton household identified in Tornamoney was headed by John Hamilton. Tornamoney was also occupied by Alexander, Daniel and John McNeill, as well as Daniel O’Neill.

http://www.billmacafee.com/1803agriculturalcensus.htm

How was John Hamilton of Tornamoney in 1803 related to the Patrick Hamilton who married Mary Laverty and probably resided in Tornamoney in 1831?

I would like to connect with any Hamiltons who may know more about the Hamilton family of Tornamoney and perhaps especially those are not online because they may be elder members of the family who know the most about its history! Old photographs of people and structures at Tornamoney would be extremely interesting.

I am also very interested in comparing Autosomal DNA results with other descendants of the Hamilton family of Tornamoney via the free site, GEDmatch.com.

Thanks for your help!

Perry Streeter (perry@streeter.com)

Hi Jackie 1.  I have just joined this forum. Alexander (Mick) and Catherine McNeill of Tornamoney were also my great, great grandparents. Their daughter Mary Ann married John McAuley of Altmore Upper (Glen Ballyemon) in 1887.  Their daughter Annie McAuley married Thomas Lunney, who was my paternal grandfather, in 1911. 

I think you are related to Doug McNeill of New Zealand, through Patrick McNeill and Catherine O'Connor.  In 2015 he had a webpage (www.mcneill.gen.nz) which had a detailed McNeill (NZ)  family tree, from the 1800s to the (then) present day. The page has now been taken down.  The info on the Tornamoney McNeills had much less detail than the replies on this message board.

Thank you all for sharing your research

Welcome MountainLoney!

Additional research has identified Dennis and Margaret (McKendry) Hamilton as close relatives of Archibald and Sarah (McNeill) McNeill. Margaret’s parents remain unknown but her mother was most likely a McNeill and thus she was probably a niece—or perhaps even a daughter—of Archibald and Sarah (McNiell) McNeill. If Margaret (McKendry) Hamilton was a granddaughter of Archibald and Sarah (McNiell) McNeill, Margaret’s descendants have a “double dose” of McNeill DNA!

I would like to compare Autosomal DNA results with other descendants of the McNeil family of Turnamoney and nearby townlands, in addition to descendants of the Hamilton, Laverty and McKendry families. My maternal grandmother’s sisters kit is already available at GEDmatch.com for comparisons and has already yielded incredible breakthroughs in other branches of the family tree!

Perry Streeter (perry@streeter.com)

Hi everyone

I've just joined this conversation. Doug took down the online family tree for privacy reasons. Like Jackie he is descended from Alexander McNeill and Catherine McKendry through Patrick McNeill and Catherine O'Connor. 

In 1996 there was still a Hamilton family at Tornamoney and a McNeill family descended from Alexander's sister Jane farming at Altagore, as well as a McKay family descended from Alexander's son John living nearby. I believe the McNeills are still at Altagore but I'm not sure about the others.

Mountain Loney, thanks for the information about Mary Ann McNeill's marriage which we didn't know. We understand she emigrated to the USA - can you tell us in which area or state they settled? Also do you know anything about her sister Anne and who she married? Their brother John stayed in Tornamoney, Patrick and Alexander came to New Zealand, and I assume their sister Jane died young as she is not in the 1881 RIC police register. 

Having spent some time exploring the available Culfeightrin parish registers I suspect everybody in the parish was related to everybody else in some way and a few married someone with a similar surname, probably a cousin.

Hello all.

Good to hear from you.  Mary Ann married John McAuley on 27th November 1887. They never went to the US.  They lived on their small farm at Altmore Upper.  There were only three farms in the townland, with the houses very close together.  There was a feud in Ballyemon between another James McAuley (of Cloghglass further up the glen) and the Delargys, who lived next door to my great grandfather's family. In 1907 the feud boiled over into a free-for-all in which James McAuley was fatally injured by a coal hammer wielded by one of the Delargys.  He was carried into my ggfers's house and died there. He was some sort of cousin to my McAuley family - as are most of the families in the glens.  Two Delargy brothers were convicted of the murder but served very little time.  They were back by the time of the 1911 census.  My great grandfather and his family left the farm because  they, so my father's cousin says, couldn't bear to live next door to their cousin's murderer.  They moved to Ballymena where John worked as a farm labourer and his grown up children worked in the local weaving mills. I have not yet been able to trace a death certificate for either Mary Ann or John McAuley.  The names are locally so common. My grandmother, Annie, moved to work in a mill in Belfast and married Thomas Lunney.  Her sister Mary later married Thomas' brother Joseph and another sister, Cassie, married Joseph's first wife's brother.  I visited the glen a few years ago. It is so beautiful. There are still two McAuley families and one Delargy family there, with the McAuleys living on their original sites. The Delargys moved further up the glen, to the site where their lime kiln workers were probably housed when the brothers were in prison.

I do not know anything more about the McNeills.  I only discovered them when I started researching family history. You probably already know that Alexander's wife Catherine died aged 60 from liver disease in 1897.  Alexander seems to have been known as "Mick" as this is added to his death certificate.  I would love to have a copy of his photograph as I have no photographs of 19th century relatives, except one of my maternal great grandmother.

A correction to my previous post.  Alexander McNeill is shown as Alexander Mick McNeill on the 1901 census, not his death certificate.

One further thought.  John O'Neill, Alexander's son, bought the freehold (or equivalent) in the family farm under the Land Acts. Yet in 1945 a John McNeill (himself or perhaps his son) died leaving only £235.  And the John McNeill who was the executor of the Will was a labourer. What could have happened to turn a settled owner of the family farm into a landless labourer in only one or two generations? Perhaps the farm was sold between 1920 and 1945 and the proceeds divided among the children of that generation.
 

Thanks for those two messages MountainLoney. That is an interesting and rather sad story about John and Mary leaving Altmore Upper. We don't know anything about buying the freehold in the farm - are you sure it was Alexander's son as there were O'Neills around in the area as well as McNeills?

However we can provide a photo of Alexander, which I suspect was taken in the early 20th century. The back of the photo says Alexander McNeill 1829-1919. Also a photo of the house that we were told the McNeills lived in at Tornamoney. 

Coaster.   Thank you so much.  I am thrilled to have these photos and will share them with my wider family.  I will check again about the freehold.  I did that research in 2015 and I can't find where I sourced it from.  I think it was a government list.  I will check again and post details on th site.
 

Coaster. I got the details from a page in the Belfast Gazette of May 7th 1926.  On revisiting it I see that it is rather a list of land vested in the Land Commission and the purchase price to be charged for each farm.  It's a interesting list in its own right.  Search for Belfast Gazette May 7 1926 to see the relevant page

The two files attached are pages from the Belfast Gazette, giving names of tenants in 1926, addresses, judicial rents and the standard price to be charged for their lands.  This is part part of the Barony of Cary .  The Gazettes for that period would be a useful guide to tenant names at that period.

Mountain Loney

Coaster & I thank you for sharing this information from the Belfast Gazette. All very interesting.

Hello Coaster and Jackie 1.  Re the old farmhouse.  I have a relative who recognised the farmhouse from the photo.  She had a holiday there in 1960 with her family and her Granny (Mary Lunney nee McAuley).  Her Granny told her it was her cousin's house which, of course, it was (her McNeill cousins).  The McNeill family didn't live there any more.  They had probably built a more modern house by then.

The house was furnished, but had no electricity or running water.  They got their water from a spring up the hill.  They had a wonderful holiday there and, obviously, she remembers the house still after sixty years.  I hope to take a day trip up to there either later this summer (covid permitting) or next summer. If the house is still there I will take a photo also. Do you know when the photo was taken of the old house?  It looks derelict and may have been demolished by now.  All the best.  Mountain Loney.

MountainLoney - good to hear from you. I understand the house photo was taken in the 1960’s. The old home is not now standing. It had gone by 1996.