Raineys & Quinns

I live in Duneane and am willing to help you with your research.

Sorry you didn’t find anyone around when you went to Moneyglass but that’s fairly normal. The parish one priest on his own with no curate and he has 3 chapels to cover (Moneyglass, Cargan & Toome). He has no housekeeper and he’s out a lot of the time on parish business.

The chapel in Moneyglass today was built in the 1920s, replacing an earlier building. Randalstown Historical Society might have a photo of the previous one. I have a feeling I have seen one somewhere but I can’t recall where.

Rainey is not a native Irish name. It’s a Scots settler name (it’s often Rennie in Scotland) and most of the Raineys in the Antrim area are Presbyterian, indicating their Scots roots. So I think yours may well have been a mixed marriage, as you suspect. If so, there’s usually an adult baptism about a month before the wedding, where the person who was not RC gets baptised into the RC faith.  Have you looked for one for John?

If your Rainey family lived in Gillistown and were Presbyterian (apart from John obviously), I’d suspect they may have attended Grange Presbyterian church in Taylorstown. Their records start in 1824 and there’s a copy in PRONI. They are not on-line anywhere so far as I am aware.

There’s this gravestone inscription in Grange Presbyterian graveyard which may relate to your family:

1876 Erected In memory of William Rainey of Gillistown Who departed this life 1st August 1875 Aged 60 years Also of his son William Who departed this life 6th July 1867 Aged 19 years And of his daughter Mary Who departed this life 9th August 1874 Aged 25 years

http://thebraid.com/genealogy.aspx

Thanks a lot for your offer of help and it is greatly appreciated.Duneane RC parish records are on line and are difficult to read,I will have a search to morrow for John's baptism.

I will check my notes and post a fuller response over the next few days.

I checked the Duneane RC records that are online for the period prior to John Charter's marriage no luck.I will check neighbouring parishes as perhaps it was easier from him to convert to Catholicism away from his local area.

I have been in both Grange Presbyterian & Ballyscullion Parish Church Templemoyle graveyards.I did this many years ago before I was aware of the full extent of the probable Presbyterian connection and I had most of the graves on the Braid site recorded.

I got from PRONI a copy of a will drawn up by John Charters Rainey in 1819 ,obviously not my Great Grandfather JCR,however in this will he leaves his land to his brothers William and Samuel Rainey and his nephew Charters Montgomery,with small sums of money to nieces Margaret McCracken and Jean Mc C ????,with William Rainey Linnen Draper and Charters Montgomery both of Gillistown as executors of the will.

The will was registered with the court 11/08/1825 and finalized on the 08/09/1826,so he must have died prior to the will registration date.

My JCR's age on his death certificate is given as 50 years old,having been married in 1845 he must a he around 60- 70 years old and born around 1818.So could my JCR be a son of the above JCR or of one on his brothers,having an identical name is one big coincidence.

I hope to come over to Ireland later this year and will visit PRONI.

I will comment on the Quinn connection later.

Still haven't found John Charter's baptism however I found a baptism in the Duneane RC records,20/05/1842 Elizabeth Quinn parents Hugh & Rose Ann, sponsors John Charters Rainey & Eliza Quinn I suspect Hugh is Eliza's brother.Hugh Quinn was a sponsor when John and Eliza's son Samuel was baptized in 1853.19/09/1841 baptism of William Graham sponsors John Rainey & Catherine Walsh.Catherine Walsh was a witness at the marriage of John Charters and Eliza Quinn in 1845.So I would assume that John Charters was a catholic pre1841 or he could not have been a sponsor at at catholic baptism.

The wording of the 1818 will suggests to me that that JCR was a single man. There’s no mention of a wife or children. All his property goes to siblings or their children. That would be typical for a single man (or a widower with no children).

Regarding the later JCR’s original baptism c 1818, your problem is that none of the churches in the area has baptisms that far back. The most likely church is Grange but it’s records only start in 1824. Another possibility is Craigmore Presbyterian. In the 1800s it was a secession church (like the Free Church of Scotland) and it accommodated a lot of secession families in the Grange area. It eventually rejoined the mainstream Presbyterian church and today the Grange congregation look after it, having a service there on alternate Sundays, or something like that. I have seen its records. They are in PRONI but are not shown in the PRONI catalogue (presumably an oversight). I think they start around the 1820s but it’s so long since I looked them up I can’t be sure about that. It also has a small graveyard (whose gravestones are not on the Braid site). Can’t say if there are any Raineys there. There probably are since it’s such a common name in the area.

Disappointing that you have not found an adult RC baptism for JCR.  If he wasn’t born RC there should be one somewhere. The RC church wouldn’t allow a mixed marriage in the 1840s so far as I am aware. 

David

I've been interested in the Nicholl family from Gillistown for over 30 years, and there was a close connection between the Nicholls and Raineys at one time, in fact, I think Nicholl Brothers shop in Ballymena went to Rainey cousins eventually. My great-grandfather was John Charters Nicholl from Gillistown, and I've always been fascinated by the middle name Charters, which only occurs 29 times in the Irish BDM indexes on Familysearch, always around Ballymena. In my research so far, I have traced the name Charters Nicholl to US/Canada as well as NZ, and have a Charters Nicholl (1786-1869), Charters Nicholl (c1846-1877), Charters Rainey (c1809-1874), and Charters Rainey (1878-1905). My research is at http://www.pko-genealogy.id.au/the-nicholls-of-gillistown-co-antrim/, though I haven't yet fixed all the document links, sorry.

I recently heard that the Register of Deeds microfilms are now online via Familysearch, so I have been dipping in to the land indexes for Gillistown, which have a number of Rainey entries. The one that led me to you concerns a transfer of lease by John Charters Rainey in 1833 to George Warren Rainey of Glasgow [haven't done a transcript yet, but I think that's what it is]. I Googled the name to see what was out there, and came up with your posts from 2008, 2010 and 2017.

Here's a link to the 1833 document: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJW-GGW3?i=512&cat=185720, I would be interested to know more about your research!

Regards

Patrick

Canberra, Australia

Hi Patrick,

               Apologies for the delay in my responding to your post,I have been away quite a lot recently and this research  tends to be a winter interest for me.I  have never come across the Nicholl family in my research.I had never seen the land grant that you you so kindly posted above.I have come across George Warren Rainey in the Glasgow census and have never been able to connect him my John Charters.My JC died in 1888 and is 50 years old according to his death certificate,it looks like an eror as he was married to ElizaQuin in 1845.she died in1866 age 40 so she was born around 1826 and I guess JC was about the same age

.I got from PRONI a copy of a will drawn up by a John Charters Rainey in 1819 ,obviously not my Great Grandfather JCR,however in this will he leaves his land to his brothers William and Samuel Rainey and his nephew Charters Montgomery,with small sums of money to nieces Margaret McCracken and Jean Mc C ????,with William Rainey Linnen Draper and Charters Montgomery both of Gillistown as executors of the will.The will was actioned in March 1826 so JC  must have died prior to this date.I have never been able to connect this JC to my JC.

Looks like the JC mentioned in the land transfer could be another JC,so there could be three of them.This is becoming too hard for my brain.

Regards,

David.

Scotland.

ps I have friends in Victoria and have been out to Australia five time never made it to Canberra maybe one day.

Hi I think I'm searching for the same information. I'm a great, great grandaughter of John Charters Rainey and descended from Samuel the brother of Daniel who both came to Dumbarton.

My father Charles Rainey now desceased mentioned a rift in the family and I've came to the conclusion that John Charters Rainey must have have converted to marry Eliza Quinn thereby giving up all rights to the farm. A clause in the will I believe says that only relatives with the name Charters could inherit  the land so by not giving any of his children the name I guess he gave up any rights he may have had.

I think I've come up against thet same issues/ brick wall and conclusions as yourself. I have found a death of a John Rainey in 1888 in the same area ( same year as JC Rainey aged 50) but he is aged 63 which is more probeble as JC Rainey if he died that year aged 50 then he would only have been a child in 1845 when he married Eliza. This John Rainey drowned and there was an inquest but I've been to Proni but they were not able to find the record of the inquest which might have provided more information. I have a copy of both certificates which I'm happy to share. I also have a family tree which I'm happy to share and hope that you can add or correct it. I've been to Moneyglass recently and found the marriage record and the baptism of some of the children.

Best wishes

Catherine

Hi Catherine,

                  I  think you I have been in touch on perhaps on another web site in the past,I lost some contacts and email data when I had PC crash some years ago.John  Charters is a mystery the 1888 death cert was signed by Hugh Rainey who was his second youngest son so I think it is safe to assume that he is our JC and the the age at death is a error not unusual in those times.I also think that JC was a convert although I cannot find the baptismal record another clue to that is none of his children have any Rainey sponsors at baptism and the parish records in Catholic parishes around Duneane contain only two Rainey records which I don't think are connected.

With regard to the family fall out story my version from my father was that his Grandfather Daniel was the convert and was turned off the farm after being reported by the housekeeper for his refusal to eat meat on Fridays.At the time he mentioned this none of us were all that interested in the family history and sadly my Dad had passed away when I began my research.Daniel and his sibling were all born Catholics so the story was incorrect however all verbal family stories have a basis of truth in n them and this looks a generation out.

I still have thee other unsolved problems with family of JC his daughter Sarah was born 25/02/1866 and his wife Eliza ( Quinn ) Rainey died 01/03/1866 from Peritonitis probably as a result of the birth of Sarah.I cannot find out what happened to Sarah.I have searched Marriage,Death,Census and Emigration records with no luck.

JC 's daughter Eliza Jane never married,she is recorded in the 1901 and 1911 Census records I have a death cert for a Eliza Jane age 86 on 18/04/1939 signed by M.Berkley at Glenhue ( a townland 7 miles from Taylorstown.) nothing on the cert that I could say I have the right person.

JC's son William probably never married last seen 1911 Census with sister above Eliza Jane unable to pin point his death.

So more question than answers I hope you can understand my ramblings.Apologies for the delay in this reply I went off to Australia at the end of October returning just before Christmas and and I am only now thinking about the crazy,frustrating thing called genealogy that really gets into your head.

Kind Regards,

David -sonoftherock

Hi Catherine,

                   I forgot to ask when you reference the clause in the will re the name Chartres whose will are you referring to,the 1819 JC will copy I have is difficult to read in places and I can't see that clause.

Regards,

David.

Hi Catherine, I have had some time away from my genealogy and am just  picking up the threads again.Re my last mail 11/02/21 do you have any info on the question I asked concering  John Charter's will.

Regards,

David.

David,

  I'm the 3rd great granddaughter of John Charters Rainey and Eliza Quinn.  My grandmother, Rosemary Rainey recently passed away at 95.  In honor of her, my mother and I are taking a trip to Dumbarton and Antrim in August.  Do you live anywhere near there?  We would love to meet up and hear about your research.  We currently live in Detroit, Michigan, USA.  My great grandparents, Thomas Rainey and Ruth O'Kane, immigrated to the US in the 1920's.  Thomas was JC Rainey's grandson.  My email is julieeizabethbrock@gmail.com if you would like to connect while we are in the UK.   

Hi, I tried to reply to the above email address and email is  bouncing can you check email address,resend and I will respond.

Regards,

David.

I'm so sorry, I typed the wrong address!  It is julieelizabethbrock@gmail.com  Would love to hear from you.

Hi David

Sorry to take so long to reply. I’ve had to put my research to one side for a while. I have come across the will and can’t find the reference I talked about but I did read it somewhere. I will keep digging.

I did get to the church at Moneyglass and saw the marriage record of JCR and EQ but the volume had been in a fire and I expect some of the baptismal records of their children could have been lost.

best wishes 

Catherine

Hi Catherine,

                     I am glad that you managed to visit Moneyglass.I have managed to solve two of the outstanding issue with John Charters family.Eliza Jane Rainey's death at Killiifast,Parish of Duneane,Co Antrim,Nothern Ireland. Death registered by William Rainey (Brother) 09/04/1929 Ballymena. Cause of Death heart failure. Old Age Pensioner 72.

William Rainey Died 20/01/1933. in Waveney  Hosp.Ballymena.Home address townland of Killyfast. Age 71.

Best wishes,

David.

Thank you …!

Hi

A late addition to this thread.....I believe my family is connected to the Raineys discussed here- and I'm especially intrigued by the prominence of the name Charters. My great great grandfather was Charters Montgomery born 1822 at Dunaird, Racavan parish, Antrim. He was the son of Hugh Montgomery and Jane Black. Charters (1822) had a son named Charters as well as a grandson of that name who was my great-uncle.  Early in my research I came across Charters Montgomery of Gillistown who died in 1856. His will names a Hugh Montgomery as a brother, and I believe that Hugh is the father of Charters (1822.)  Charters of Gillistown has numerous descendants who are DNA matches to me and others in my family so I'm sure of this connection. The name Charters pops up frequently among the descendants of Charters of Gillistown.... 

I'm really intrigued by the will of John Charters Rainey mentioned above which names Charters Montgomery of Gillistown as a nephew. I have hypothesised that Charters of Gillistown was a brother of my 3x great grandfather Hugh Montgomery of Dunaird (this is borne out both by Charters' 1856 will and the DNA connections to his descendants.) If John Charters Rainey was an uncle of Charters of Gillistown then he was probably also an uncle of my Hugh Montgomery. This would mean that the mother of Hugh and Charteris of Gillistown was a Rainey and sister of John Charters Rainey. 

Does anyone have information on the earlier Raineys that might help piece this story together, or any ideas on the origins of the name Charters?

Thanks!

Jack Noe