James Martin 1794-1867

In 1864 Griffith's Valuation of Armagh showed two James Martins in the parish of Kilclooney, one in the townland of Corhammock, the other in Ballylane townland:

Martin

James

Corhammock

Kilclooney

Co. Armagh

Martin

James

Ballylane

Kilclooney

Co. Armagh

Frances,

I looked for a death certificate for Hannah 1864 to 1874 but did not find any of that name in the Kilclooney registration area. Likewise I could not find a death for James in 1867 born c 1794. 

There are some trees on Ancestry that have this family but all had these events in Glenties, Co Donegal. That’s 100 miles from Co. Armagh.  There are a couple of townlands (not parishes) in Donegal called Kilclooney. I wonder if there has been some confusion in identifying the correct county here?

You have put this query under Co Armagh. However Kilclooney is in Co Donegal. You might want to re-post your query under Glenties, Co Donegal to get a better response.

I assume the family was RC. If so the bad news is that Glenties parish has no records before 1866, so you will probably struggle to find much about the family.

Have you obtained copies of James & Hannah’s death certificates? You may get a little from that. I see a John & James Martin in Kilclooney Beg in Griffiths Valuation c 1860. They were farming plot 4 together with James Kennedy. That was a 17 acre farm. John & James were probably closely related, brothers perhaps?

There were still some Kennedys there in the 1901 census but no Martins.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Donegal/Dowras/Kilcloo…

Thank you so much Patricia and Elwyn!

Yes, I should have posted under Co Donegal- it's the first time I have posted, so I have no idea how I made it to Armagh! I have previously found records via Glenties, Co Donegal, although I have never been able to find a record of my own Mother's birth. 
And, yes they were Catholic. I also didn't know that there were no records pre 1866  

Your comments have both been very helpful, again thank you so much! I am in Australia. 
cheers 

Frances

Thank you so much Patricia and Elwyn!

Yes, I should have posted under Co Donegal- it's the first time I have posted, so I have no idea how I made it to Armagh! I have previously found records via Glenties, Co Donegal, although I have never been able to find a record of my own Mother's birth. 
And, yes they were Catholic. I also didn't know that there were no records pre 1866  

Your comments have both been very helpful, again thank you so much! I am in Australia. 
cheers 

Frances

Frances:

There is an January 31867 death index record for a James Martin from Kilclooney. He was age 73 and married. The informant was a Neil Martin but no relationship of Neil to James was shown. As background, death record images are available on the free site www.irishgenealogy.ie from 1871-1971. For deaths from 1864-1870 we only have images but the actual records should be added in the near future.

There was also an index record for the death of Hannah Martin age 64 from Kilclooney on May 25 1864. Informant was son Neil Martin. Hannah was shown as the wife of James Martin. Likely the 1867 record incorrectly showed married instead of widower.

As Elwyn mentioned in responding to your first message, the RC records for Glenties start in 1866. Almost all of the RC parishes in Donegal have records starting after 1850.

See sixth record for death of Neil Martin in 1890.

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_retu…

death record for Anne Martin 1897

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_retu…

Roger McDonnell

Frances,

If you would like us to look for your mother's birth, let us have the details (approx date, place and her parents names) and we'll see if we can help.

Frances:

I noticed a mistake in my response. In the third sentence of my first paragraph, it should read, " For deaths from 1864-1870, we only have index records

Roger

Thank you so much. That gives me something to work with!

My mother was Mary Ellen Martin, born 12 April 1913. Her mother was Mary Martin, née McNellis, her father was James Martin. They lived in Kilclooney Co Donegal. 

Thank you so much. That gives me something to work with!

My mother was Mary Ellen Martin, born 12 April 1913. Her mother was Mary Martin, née McNellis, her father was James Martin. They lived in Kilclooney Co Donegal. 

I can’t see Mary Ellen’s birth either. I have searched using forename only, surname only as well as mother’s maiden name. I can see William born 17.8.1915 but not Mary Ellen. Probably the birth wasn’t registered.  That did happen. Their could/should be a record of her baptism which for 1913 is likely still held by the church (ie it won’t be on-line anywhere). You could contact the parochial office and see if they can send you a copy of that.

James and Mary had a daughter Maria Frances Theresa Martin
on 08-Feb-1918; her birth was registered on10-Apr-1918.
Lived in Narin
Parish/ARDARA
Co. Donegal
Parents: James Martin, a farmer, and Mary McNelis

It would be unusual for a couple to have two daughters named Mary / Maria.
Is it possible that this Maria is actually your mother Mary Ellen?

Thank you Patricia. Frances Therese Martin was my mother's sister❤️

Strange that your mother's birth seems to be missing from the birth register.  Maybe she was registered under "Female" Martin

I wondered if the records count have been destroyed in the fire?

Frances,

I assume the fire that you are referring to was the 1922 fire at the Public Record Office in Dublin. Statutory birth records weren’t kept there, and so were unaffected by the fire. So no it’s not likely to have been lost in the fire.  The most likely explanation is that the family overlooked registering it.  There was no financial benefit in registering a birth in those days (as there is now) and it was a task that tended to get saved up till you were in town on other business, and you saw the Registrar as well. Occasionally that was simply overlooked.

I’d try and confirm the approximate date of birth from the church baptism records. To do that you will need to contact the parochial office and see if they have the baptism. (Likely within 7 days of the birth).  Then you could send that to GRO Roscommon and ask them to search the originals for you, in case the entry is faded, illegible or was just missed when the records were put on-line.

My feeling though, is the parents simply overlooked registering it.  Patricia has suggested that she could have been registered without a name. Perfectly sound suggestion as many births were registered without a name, but I have searched all the female Martin births in Glenties around 1915 and I don’t see any that fit, named or un-named.

Thank you Elwyn. You and Patricia have clarified a lot for me.

Cheers Frances