Searching for Cornelius Sugrue b. 1819 Parents John Sugrue and Ellen Neil

Ann Marie,

Are you certain about his birth year and location? The surname Sugrue (Sughrue) is very popular in Kerry; and there are a few Cornelius Sugrue's born there if you search on irishgenealogy.ie under the church records tab for Kerry. I did not find him on the church records tab for Cork, but I do not have the record that you speak of from Find My Past. Additionally, there are some Ancestry trees that put his birth year about 1809 - I believe due to the death record that one tree shows from 1867 where he died at 58 years old. It is possible that that death record could be for another Cornelius Sugrue....especially since it states that he only lived in NYC for three years. 

Regards,

Hi, a good way to search  is to go backward from the last record for Cornelius--his death, cemetery, and probate records. Then go further back in the censuses.  Have you found him in the NYS 1865 and 1855 censuses? In the 1860 and 1850 federal censuses?  Who was he living with? Any siblings or cousins or parents in the household--they might help pinpoint which Cornelius in Ireland you are looking for.  What were the children's names, in order? You might figure out his parents' names by looking at the children's names. Have you looked at their birth/baptism/death records to see what is said about Cornelius? There are other records to look at too, such as NY newspapers. (If you have done all this, I apologize for assuming otherwise. Just trying to be helpful.)

Thank you, Carolyn and Patricia!

Carolyn, the record of Cornelius' NYC death that you mention is from MY family tree (and was copied by a distant relative in West Virginia, USA).   It is the only record I have of a NY Cornelius- and am not sure it is him.  It states that His TB death in a NYC hospital was followed by burial in potters field/city cemetery. We are still trying to find his grave. He was buried in 1867 which is one year before the Hart Island Potters Field was opened on an island in Long Island Sound.  The director of the Hart Island project said she does not know if the 1867 burials were moved.....or which City Cemetery was used by the Wards Island Hospital (now named Randalls Island) in which he died.

IF that is truly him, he died the year his youngest daughter (my g-grandmother) was born.

The only other proof we have of his existence is on the NYC death records of his five children with Mary Shea Sugrue. Have found the graves of his children and his wife in NYC.  Have not located birth or baptismal records for any of the children.  Have been looking since 1982 with a related second cousin......

Years ago, I connected with a Sugrue/Shugrue/Sughrue data base, and the owner could not find our Cornelius amongst his relatives, despite there being several with the same name born in Ireland.

SO, thought I would look again at Irish records and trace the POSSIBLE Cornelius' life to a point where I might find a connection.

That brought me to the baptismal record I read today (original church book was digitized and indexed on Find My Past). The others listed on that site were not possible matches due to the dates of baptism.  I thought I would try to follow this fellow.......and hope to find a family connection. 

Are there any Irish records post 1819 baptism that I could check?  Perhaps land records or census in that area of Cork during that time?

THANK YOU!

Ann Marie

Oops- did not answer your questions/ideas.

Have not found ANY information about Cornelius in NYC census until 1880 when Mary was listed as a widow with her daughter, Bridget, and their last name was spelled Shugero.

Found a naturalization request (Nov 7, 1859) for a Cornelius Sugrua with an address of 39 Park Row for his witness (southern end of Manhattan Island).

Birth order was John (1858 Ireland- 1913 NY), Catherine (1858 NY-1898 NY), Denis (1861 NY-1897 NY), Anna Bridget Veronica (1868 NY-1907 NY)

Cannot find birth records for any of those children in public websites.  Heading to Municipal Archives to see if they have ideas for finding at home births that might not have been registered during the Civil War.

Have not found the baptismal records of the children, despite writing to several churches in the Five Points area of Manhattan Island.  

Have not found the family in census records.........

John (1858-1913) death record says Mary Mack was his mother, not the Mary Shea listed as parent on the death certificates of the other children.

Denis had a motorman accident with head injury that was reported in a newspaper.

Mary Shea Sugrue had a newspaper obituary which requested that her 1890 death information be forwarded to St. Joseph, Missouri.  Have contacted historical societies there; city directories in that area.......not sure WHO the family knew in Missouri.

Yes, pieces of my brick wall puzzle.  Who would have thought it so difficult to find someone with this name?  :-)

Thank you again!

Ann Marie,

Can you post the Find My Past baptism record? You ask about other records besides baptism ones....there are the Tithe Applotment records (1823-1837) you can look at. I looked, and just put the surname, then Cork for county; and there were no records. If you put in Sugrue, then Kerry; you will find 17 records. These, obviously, would be records of his father or other older relations, not Cornelius. I'm confused about why you are looking for an 1819 birth record if you have that death record for him on your tree that shows his birth was closer to 1809. I looked on irishgenealogy.ie for son John's baptism record around 1858 in both Kerry and Cork, but did not find any record.

Finally, did you notice that a witness to Anna's marriage was an Ellen I Sugruo? I wonder who she is?

Regards,

IMG_5119.jpeg

Are you able to open this copy of the Find My Past Index? 
 

The church record (digitized in Find My Past) for Cornelius Sugrue baptism 28 Feb 1819 lists him as CON SUGRUE, son of John Sugrue and Ellen Neil in Shanbally residence.  The sponsors were  _____ Byrne and Eli___ Price.  Several smudges appear in the text.

Since it was smudged, the transcriber who indexed the entry entered it as    Con Sugr?ce     and John Sugr?ce

As always, I checked it out because he is a brick wall.

I am trying to find a way to change the photo of the entry from my IMG file to a JPEG file.......it is on my phone........the scanner is taking a vacation.....

Ann Marie

Thank you Carolyn.

Yes, Ellen I Sugro was a witness to Annie's wedding.  Annie's granddaughter and I are stumped and wonder if Ellen was married to a Sugrue or if she was a sibling/cousin of Cornelius.  Have been researching from so many angles since 1982........

The only reason we are considering THIS 1819 birth is because we are convinced most of our relatives were not clear about their exact ages/dates of birth based on the researched records we have found.  Seems Cornelius and Mary moved around a lot in NYC- mostly in the same area- and have not been found in most of the census years.  So, we are tracing every possible Cornelius Sugrue.  Yes, many are from Kerry, and this unique name popped up from Cork.  Will check the land records from the time for information about the parents, John and Ellen.  Perhaps they moved from Cork to Kerry.......anything is possible!

The death of a 58 Year old Cornelius in the TB hospital and burial in City Cemetery 1867 Potters Field has been the only NYC info I have found of his existence- besides named on the death certificates of his children.

Have not found baptismal or birth records for his children, which leads me to believe they lived "outside a norm" and moved around a lot.

None of them lived long lives. Might have been sickly in tenement dwellings that were awful during that Civil War era.

Again, THANK YOU for your suggestions as we plow through whatever records exist for that time period!

Ann Marie

(and Carol, my 3rd cousin, Annie Sugrue's granddaughter)

Ann Marie,

A few final ideas/comments....in early 19th century Ireland, folks did not move around a lot....typically, they were born, married, and died in the same general area or parish. Unless, of course, they emigrated. So, I doubt that his family moved from Cork to Kerry or vice versa during that era. The birth records for the RC parish of Passage West begin in 1795, with gaps; and the marriage records begin in 1813, with gaps. So, if we assume that their son John was born in the RC parish of Passage West, there should be a record from around 1858, give or take. There should also be a marriage record for Cornelius and Mary Shea a few years before that. I did not find either in two sources I looked at. Additionally, while it is possible he was 39 years old when John was born, that seems a bit on the old side to me.....his birth date of 1809 that some speculate would make him older still. Whether in Cork or Kerry, not all the parishes have early baptism/marriage records for the time period you are looking in....I think that might be the issue you are facing. With my own Kerry ancestors, they are from a RC parish where baptism/marriage records begin in 1868. So, the earliest ones that I have to go on are the civil ones that begin in 1864. 

Best of luck!

Thank you, Carolyn!!  You have given me so many ideas and remind me to HOPE the connection will happen if I continue!

Had hoped DNA programs would help......just another tool in the search!  

I will continue to search those Kerry Sugrue families and review family names.

Have been looking since 1982 and will continue until I cannot do it anymore!

All my gratitude and best wishes to you-

Ann Marie