Glovers - Ballywalter, Down

Unfortunately save for a few fragments, all the Irish censuses prior to 1901 have been destroyed. A part of the 1861 for Co Down (around Bangor) survives and is available on Emerald Ancestors site (pay to view). Otherwise there?s nothing for Co Down.

You don?t say what denomination your Glover family were. I can see from the 1901 census that some in Ballywalter were Church of Ireland and other Presbyterian. However there?s a James Blackwood Glover in the 1901 census who was Presbyterian so I assume that?s what your were.

The births are all before the start of statutory registration (1864) and likewise the marriage you seek (April 1845), so you won?t get statutory birth or marriage certs for them. You might find James & Isabella's marriage and some of the baptisms in church records. Tradition was to marry in the bride?s church after which she?d attend her husband?s. So depending on what church she attended you may not find the marriage and the baptisms in the same set of records.

Ballywalter 1st Presbyterian church?s baptisms start 1824, marriages 1803; the 2nds baptisms in 1820, marriages 1845. (earlier records are lost). Copies of these records, together with indexes, are held in PRONI, Belfast. They are not on-line anywhere as far as I am aware and a personal visit is normally required to access them at PRONI.

Thanks for your info.  James Blackwood Glover married Isabella Reid on 8/8/1858 at Ballywalter Church of Ireland according to civil records.  His father John was a farmer.  Her father William was a mariner.  Was hoping the Church record may provide more clues - are they available anywhere.  There are Reid graves right next to James & Isabella's grave in Whitechurch graveyard but as I don't know Isabella's mother's name I can't yet make the connection.

Tradition was to marry in the bride?s church, so you can probably conclude that Isabella was Church of Ireland. It doesn?t always follow that the husband was of the same denomination and tradition was for the bride to switch to her husband?s denomination after marriage. Though clearly that didn?t always happen. As far as Ballywalter Church of Ireland records are concerned, PRONI has the following older records:

C.I. Ballywalter (Down diocese) Baptisms, 1845-74; burials, 1844-78; vestry minutes, 1856-78; communicants? list, 1883.

Earlier records than these dates are lost. Later records are still held by the church. So it looks as though the records around the time of Isabella?s birth are all lost. The burial records might throw up some useful information though re her parents.

These records are not on-line anywhere, so far as I am aware. You either need to go to PRONI, Belfast or get a researcher to do so. You could also write to the Rector, but he may not have the time to look up the records for you. If he does do it, there?s usually a charge (?19 an hour I recall).

In your original post you said that you were looking for James & Isabella?s marriage, but in the second posy, you seem to have found it. I assume that?s resolved? (From 1845 onwards, the civil copy any Church of Ireland marriage should just be a duplicate of that held by the church).

Elwyn

James and Isabella are a bit of a mystery.  Although I found a marriage entry for them in 1858 and all the details seem to fit, I'm not convinced that this date is correct.  The first twins of the18 children were born in 1839.  Another family researcher believes James must have been married before and the children born before his marriage to Isabella in 1858 were with another wife.  However...I have the original family bible which gives James and Isabella's full names and states that 18 children were born to the above, then lists all children and dates of birth and death.  Also, their headstone at Whitechurch graveyard also lists eleven children who died in infancy.  If Isabella was not the mother of all the children why would they be buried with her.  Two of the older children who died as adults, after both parents, are also on the headstone as "their" son etc. Could the 1858 date be a transcription error that should read 1838. If records after 1845 are duplicates of the church record then someone must have transcribed it.  That would fit better but I haven't been able to find the church marriage record.  I'd really like to see the original manuscript.  Can you tell me where Ballyobegan is - James' mother Mary came from there but can't find it on the map.  Thanks for your guidance.

I think it was Isabella who was married before, rather than James. That may account for the extra children. Hers, by her first marriage. And that's why they'd be buried with her.

There?s little likelihood of any mistake over the date as marriages in 1838 weren?t recorded in the civil records. The date has to be 1845 onwards. I reckon 1858 is correct.

I would order a copy of the civil marriage certificate. It will show both parties previous marital status. The marriage was registered in Newtownards 1858 Volume 9, page 4. You can order a photocopy of that from GRO Roscommon for 4 euros. http://www.groireland.ie/ Quote the above reference information on the application form (anywhere). That way they?ll find it easier and you save 2 euros on the normal price (6 euros).

The church copy of this marriage is in PRONI, Belfast in their copy of Ballywalter COI records. But as I say it should be a duplicate of the civil record.

You should find that Isabella Reid was previously known as Thomson. So she?s a widow in 1858.

Ballyobegan is just south of the village of Ballywalter. The coast road (The A2 Springvale Rd) goes through it. Ballyobegan House is in the middle of it. You can see it using the maps on Griffiths Valuation:

http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=nameS…