assistance appreciated

Looking at Griffiths Valuation for 1864, I see 2 Uprichard farms in Corncreeny. One was plots 35 & 35 which was held by Thomas and consisted of a house, outbuildings and12 acres. He was subletting a house (an agricultural labourers house) to William (plot 34b). The second farm was Robert on plots 36 & 37. He had a house, outbuildings and 12 acres. (That both farms are the same size hints that at one time it might have been a 24 acre farm which was split between two people (typically 2 brothers).

In 1875 Thomas is replaced by Dinas. In 1876 William vacates plot 34b and isn?t replaced. In 1877, plot 33 next door is acquired by James Uprichard. It was a house, outbuildings and 9 acres.

All 3 farms remain in those names till 1909 at which point all 3 bought their farms under the Land Act.

In 1928 plot 36 is owned by Robt Uprichard jr and Robt Uprichard is subletting a house and garden from him (36a).

In case you haven?t seen them, PRONI hold the 3 following probate files. (Only the abstract is on-line):

Administration of the Estate of William Uprichard late of Corcreeny County Down Farmer's Assistant who died 7 April 1910 granted at Belfast to Dynes Uprichard Farmer.

Uprichard Dynes of Corcreeny county Down farmer died 24 November 1950 Administration Belfast 21 February to Sarah Uprichard the widow. Effects ?549

Uprichard Thomas William of Corcreeny county Down retired farmer died 9 January 1958 Probate Belfast 19 February to James Ivan Uprichard electrician. Effects ?411 15s.

http://applications.proni.gov.uk/DCAL_PRONI_WillsCalendar/willsSearchResultsDetails.aspx

To go back earlier than 1864, you need the tithe applotment records. These are not on-line for Northern Ireland. A copy is held in PRONI, Belfast, on microfilm.

The surname itself is indicative of Welsh origins (ap Richard), perhaps in the 1600s.

Elwyn

Thank you for your comments

I did list Plots 27 and 28 as those of interest

Plots 35 36 37 are other people

The records sometime Uprichard recorded as Bridget [an abbreviated form accoding to Lysaught]

I have been through Grffith valuations

David

Thank you for your comments

I did list Plots 27 and 28 as those of interest

Plots 35 36 37 are other people

The records sometime Uprichard recorded as Bridget [an abbreviated form accoding to Lysaught]

I have been through Grffith valuations

David

David,

Sorry but when I looked at Griffiths and saw that plots 27/28 were not occupied by Uprichard ? the name you said you were interested in ? I assumed you may have made a mistake. I did not know that Bridget is a variation of Uprichard, and I wonder if anyone else would. It might have been helpful to have made what you are seeking clearer.

Also the date you gave (1850) does not match the date on the on-line version which is 1864 for that townland. That added to my suspicion that your information was not quite accurate.

Elwyn

My notes on Uprichards have not been verified, so be careful. William b 1805 d1882 and Margaret b 1819 d 1903 are a Bleary family, but my notes say Samuel got the Bleary farm and Robert got the Corcreany farm when Robert, Sr. died. There is a will at PRONI. I saw a Corcreany Thomas married to Jane Russell and Jane Gilpin with Jane Gilpin having son Dynes. Either Thomas remarried or there were several Thomas Uprichards. There is an Andrew Uprichard in Bleary whose son married Mary Jane Uprichard with father Thomas. The son is in Corcreany later on as are a number of Bleary Uprichards. I don't have an obvious John, but Corcreany William Uprichard b, 1858 is son to a Thomas and has Robert as a witness at his marriage. I have lots of Bleary and Corcreany names plus Knocknamuckley church information. Robert and Margaret had dau Elizabeth who married into my family and Wm married Richard McCleary's dau. I'm stuck on Richard. Do you have family information that would help us tie similar names together?

Hi you guys with Upritchard interests. I have made up maps and tables of Uprichard/Uprichard/Bridget distribution from Griffiths and subsequent revaluations plus my draft comments on which I would much appreciate more input. How do I get them to you for comment ?. (lines 5 and 12 corrected 12feb2017 - EA69)

My GGG-grandfather, John was married in Tullylish on 23-July-1823 as Opritchard, to Rebecca (also listed as Opritchard), and lived at Corcreeny 28b (house) as John Bridget. His son Joseph was Bridget when his birth was registered at Donaghcloney on 16-April-1833 (born 1830 ?), but was Joseph Uprichard when married to Mary, also Uprichard, on 19-Sep-1856 at Knocknamuckley. There is good reason to believe Mary was a daughter of Robert who lived "over the shuck" at Bleary 3+4 or maybe John or Sam next door on Bleary 40, 41, 43. There is a high probability Thomas (tombstone close to Warringstown Church entrance) is related as three of his children emigrated to NZ soon after Joseph and maintained close contact with him as his family. CORCREENY TO CANTERBURY (ISBN 978-0-473-20550-8) records the NZ family and is available from me.

There were around 90 Uprichard-Upritchard-Bridget leases or leasors in Griffiths, thus maybe 100 families, but it is extremely difficult to link them genealogically. Looks like DNA is the most likely method.

Joseph and Mary emmigrated to NZ on the Zealandia in 1862, and a few years later changed the spelling to Upritchard, probably as a result of this spelling being published in Griffiths (Robert, Thomas and William on Corcreeny 34, 35, 36, 37. Thus the spelling of the NZ Upritchard clan. There were also Upritchards in the Armagh part of Magheralin parish.

Uprichard is the local variation of the Welsh Ap Richard, ie son of Richard. So the original settlers of this name in Ireland were Welsh, and used the patronymic naming patterns common in Wales at that time. Another example is the surname Price which is a corruption of Ap Rhys. Son of Rhys.

Mary's father is John Uprichard, a farmer per the marriage record.  Mary was said to be 19 and living in Bleary, so probably her father was there. A John and Mary Bridgett of Bleary had son James 1839 baptized at Knocknamuckley, but I see no later kids.   Records start in 1839.  Witnesses to the marriage of Mary and Joseph were Andrew Morrison? and Samuel Wells.    Almost all the Uprichard head of households in Bleary in the 1857 Knocknamuckley church census were about 30 years except for Thomas Sr (45) and James (52.) However, in the Donaghcloney/Waringstown records, there is a farmer of Bleary named John whose dau Hester 19 married James Ward in 1848 and son John 22 married Mary Ward in 1850. John and mary are probably the couple in Bleary in 1857 with children Samuel, William John, and Mary Ann.

John and Rebecca had a surname of Bridget in 1833 for Joseph, but were Uprichards  when daughter Ann Jane was baptized Nov 11, 1829. 

Elwyn - thanks for your comments. I have the information about the origin of the name, and it brings to mind that Prichard and Pritchard should also be added to the search for ancestors, particularly if using DNA, which I would love to try. Phonetic spelling commonly used back then really does muddy the water.

Kat - thanks also for your comments. I found John and Rebecca's Tullylish marriage by searching microfilm at PRONI and it was late in the day before I found out that the actual church registers could also be viewed. Maybe next time, if I make it to PRONI again. Mary's father John (farm 43) was probably a brother of Sam (40 + 41) and Robert (3 + 4) on adjacent farms, with Leonard (14) Sarah (13) and Thomas (12) also close handy and possible siblings. Is the one you call Thomas Sr the leasee of 12?, have you found Thomas Jr? and where did you find James ?. Have you been able to link them as relatives ?. The only house shown of map VAL/2/A/3/19 is on Roberts farm.4, so is it likely they all lived there ?. There are remnants of a house on farm.3. Did you find Mary's mothers name ?. I did find Ann Jane and assumed she was Joseph's sister, but could find no futher traces of her. Joseph and Mary's children born in Ireland were Rebecca (4-Aug-1857, registered as Bridget; mic/1/93/2), John, my grandfather, (Nov 1858 - no registration found) and Eleanor (26-Oct-1861; mic/1/93/2). The next nine were all born in NZ, including one who died at birth.

Upritchards on the other side of the shuck in Corcreeny are also likely to be closely related, seperated only by the Griffiths Corcreeny recorder who used a different spelling to the Bleary recorder ?. Are you able to find the ages of William, Thomas and Robert on Corcreeny 34, 35, 36, 37. Thomas is almost certainly a close relative of John Bridget. A very short distance away are the Bridgets, including my ancestor, John at 28a and others on 10, 11, 12 13, 14, 15, 16, 22, 25, 28, 33.

I have yet to search Prichard and Pritchard in Griffiths. If interested, you could email me; reunion(at)upritchard.com.

PS - I note DavidUpp, the initiator of this string is looking for John, and mentions Corcreeny farms 27 and 28. It seems highly probable that my ancestor, John Bridget on 28a is the person he is looking for. Google Earth indicates the large building on farms.15/28 no longer exists.

I am working with Donaghcloney/Waringstown church records and Knocknamuckley church records and having a hard time translating into the valuation homes.  I know Leonard had father Wm and went to Lurgan First Presby and some of the other Uprichards are later Presbys.  We should probably ignore Leonard for a while and concentrate on Ch of Ire. guys. According to son John's will, there was a father John with sons John m. Mary Ward and Samuel m. Mary Best and possibly Esther m. James Ward.  He probably had a bunch more children, but finding the right ones will take time.  Samuel (d. 1911) moved to Legacorry and had children William John, Joseph, and Dynes b. 1861.  John (d 1876) and Mary Ward  of Bleary in 1911 had children Samuel bapt 1853 (to Aust) Robert 1859, Mary Ann (m. Henry Hunter) Ellen or Eleanor 1861, Joshua 1863 m. Martha Stevenson, Eliza 1864, Sarah Jane 1867 m. Wm Hazelton, James 1872 m. Mary Ward, and William John. 

John and Rebecca with son Joseph and dau Ann Jane also had dau Isabella bapt 1834, probably died and had another Isabella bapt 1836.  He is both a weaver and farmer, so he must have had perhaps 10 acres of land as a guess.

James and Rebecca Hampton farmed and had so many kids that James may be related to John and Samuel's father. People married within class lines even as farmers.  They had Nancy 1837, James 1839, Rebecca 1842, Ellen 1844, Seth 1847, Ann 1849, John Henry 1852 m. Martha, Margaret Jane 1854, and apparently Isabella m. Matthews, and Ann m. Cairns (goes to Philadelphia USA.)  James has a farm in Monbrief, again according to will info. 

There was a Thomas  b. 1852 to Thomas Sr. b. abt 1812 and Sarah Donnelly.  However, there is Thomas Uprichard (possibly with father Andrew) who married Mary Ann Uprichard b. 1834 and she had father Thomas.  There are so many Uprichards with the same names as I have at least 30 Thomas Uprichards.  Would it be easier to send the transcribed records? They won't append.

Hi

Are you having a nice chat on my Post?  None seemsmuch related to my original question. Pre 1850 was the time frame not migrants to NZ.  Re EA69 have you done much reading of old documents and writing styles? Oprichard is not correct,

Does anyone have contact with descendants in Ireland?

David 

1857 census of the Knocknamuckley church for Bleary Uprichards placed in Griffith's house order (note about 6 years difference)

House 3 Robert  32 and Margaret 31, children James 11, Elizabeth 9, Mary Ann 7, Isabella 5, Mary jane 3 Rachel 1 26 acres means farmer

House 12  not in Knocknamuckley census though there is a fair chance James is the farmer  at 15 and Thomas is 23year old brother? listed under missing.  The logic is there are 2 james Uprichards listed with no father in parentheses which means they are the same person typically.  The other James is a Bridget. .

House 13 Sarah widow of Thos Sr who was 45, Sarah 34, children ann Jane 14 m. James Mawhirt, William 11, Rebecca 9 m. James Greer, Jemina 7, Thomas 5, David 3, Alexander 1

House 14  Leonard- Presby b 1819  m. Mary Ann Irvine children Margaret 1856, Leonard 1858, Dinah 1860 William, George

House 15 James 36  Mary 34, children Mary Anne 8, John 6, James 2, Joseph 1  farmer 18 acres

House 17  James 52  Mary 44, William John 21, Charles 19, James 17, Mary Anne 14, Alexander 7 Robert 4  weaver

House 40  Samuel 25  Eleanor 23 his SISTER plus 2 weavers  7 acres farmer

House 43  John 30 Mary 29 children Samuel 7, William John 4, Mary Ann 2, 8 acres, appears to be Mary Ward and Samuel above is John's brother. per John's will

missing- living with Harrisons John 25, Mary Ann 23, Martha 2  James infant also Jane, the illeg of Ann Harrison and James Uprichard who went to the US.  Notes appear to say Thomas is the father of John

missing- Thomas 23 Mary Ann (Uprichard) Nancy 2, BIL William Henry Uprichard, Nancy 26, Andrew 1.  Not sure who Nancy is sister of.

Corcreany is much more difficult There is a Thomas Bridget at 34 and 35 who is not yours.  He is a weaver farmer and has kids. Dynes is the most obvious. My families are involved.

Then there is "your" family at 27/28. However this looks like John  born 1834 to  weaver/farmer Thomas with about 5-6 acres.  Given all the changes at this house in 1876-1884, this might be the Thomas that dies 1880 at age 75.  If so, there is then a problem. He would be born about 1805 and marry about 1825.  Since John and Rebecca had dau Ann Jane in 1829, then this could not be that John if all is true but John who married 1853 Mary Menary probably.  They had children Sarah, 1864, Arabella 1857,Jane 1855, and Margaret 1854.  David Uprichard takes over the land after Thomas dies and John does not look like he is about. This Thomas may be Thomas m. Jane Gilpin or Jane Russell, maybe he or Jane remarries.  No telling until some better records are found.  Mary 1835, James, 1838, Margaret 1837, and David 1838 are the children of Jane Russell.  Jane Gilpin b. abt 1805 had children Dynes,1846, Thomas, and Jane abt 1841.  Dau Jane moved to Christchurch and married an Anderson.  I doubt if I have all the baptism records for these kids,   Anyway, if someone scouts around through Tullylish and Waringstown records, they may be able to find a Thomas who is born by 1787, has son John by 1808, and grandchild by 1829.

There is a Thomas m. Charlotte in Waringstown who had son James 1830. I have no Waringstown/Tullylish records.  It is possible you might interest someone in checking about if you go to the North Armagh Family history site on Facebook and specify that you have been told about Davey's Donaghcloney records (leave a e-mail address if you want them), but you are looking for a John born before 1809 who married Rebecca and apparently had a father Thomas if you think that is true.  He could be an Uprichard or a Bridget.  Very little is available for this time (Davey;s records go to 1771 and stop until they start at 1829), but that site has several active members who go to PRONI or GRONI relatively often.  Maybe there is a will not at PRONI's on-line site. The year of the move to NZ could be important as well as children's names, so specify all your information. 

Thanks Kat : WHEW ! That will all take a bit of absorbing, but I will work on it. I have a note of Jane marrying Anderson in Antrim in 1862, before they emmigrated, but no source I can find right now. There is no marriage record in NZ BDM. Thomas and Jane started a long line of Dynes' and I had the good fortune to meet Dynes-4 who has a son, Dynes-5.

As an observation, the new IRELAND CHRONICLES database recently added to this site may offer an interesting option for connecting early Uprichard information.

David - thanks for you first post which opened a very interesting discussion, even if not answering your question. I'm very well informed on the NZ family, so its the pre-1862 Irish tree I'm now trying to trace. You are the first person of like interest I have seem on the net and your mention of John, Corcreeny and 1850 seemed to me he could potentially be John Bridget at 28a, father of Joseph (Bridget, emigrating as Uprichard and later Upritchard in NZ) and Mary Jane, thus directly in my line.

I have tried to upload the image I got at PRONI showing the Oprichard spelling. Hope it worked - Tullylish Register; 22-July-1823

In reviewing the Donaghcloney records, I found that John b 1834 and therefore probably the husband of Mary Menary had parents Thomas and Jane.  Two gravestones at Waringstown are on the Lurgan ancestry site.  One is for the Bridgett family and the other is Thomas and Jane with son Dynes and dau Jane (Anderson) and son James in Ashburton, NZ.  This Thomas died in 1874, but the records I have say another  Corcreany Thomas died in 1880.  Did they both marry a Jane, one a Russell and the other a Gilpin?  The John renting from Thomas until Thomas died is a typical pattern of father and caretaking son.

I think Isabelle Bridget who married John Sands sounds like the daughter of John and Rebecca.  They had children David 1865, Robert 1864, William 1867, Margaret Jane 1869, and Samuel 1870 in Waringstown, but probably had children before this in church records.  Giles Stacey has mentioned that there is James Uprichard farmer from Corcreany aged 22 Presby son of John Uprichard farmer 1847 to Mary Marshall again Presby of Tullyvallon.  I'm having trouble following Giles, but he says a Rebecca Uprichard died in Lurgan aged 88 in 1888, no telling which one.  James and Mary (no last name included) had children born in Bleary-Rebecca 1853, Joseph 1856, Isabella 1858 and a James and Mary had son Thomas b 1847 while living in Drumgask, 

Then he says his gt grandfather Joseph from Corcreany had father John and mother Rebecca, but doesn't know if James was from that family. He says they had child Joseph b 1827 who probably died. Also a child Isabella twice. This was from a letter dated 2008, so I will see if his e-mail is still good.

Spelling was not fixed early on and many names wander through different spellings. 

Bleary House 15 is worth taking a look at.  I left out dau Rebecca b. 1853 by mistake.  Here we have children of James and Mary Uprichard as James and Mary, John and Rebecca, and Joseph and Isabelle (b. 1858 aftyer the census).  Remember that John and Rebecca of Corcreany apparently had twice named kids Joseph and Isabella. On July 28th, 1858 Mary Upr. of Bleary is burried at Donaghcloney and on the same day, Rebecca, Joseph, and Isabelle Upr. are baptized at Knocknamuckley.  Is this a coincidence?  There is a James who reported Rebecca Uprichard as dying in 1888 about age 88, and registered at Lurgan.  Do death records say anything helpful?  Drumgask may be involved, so is this the same James?  Could James be an early son of John and Rebecca? This  house 15 James was born about 20 years after Rebecca but he looks like the eldest son of a farmer as he has a fairly large farm of 18 acres.  He could be a nephew  as he seems to be using the same naming convention.The given name Rebecca may refer to John's wife or to a Bleary Rebecca who died 1849 (no age given)  and Joseph may refer to a Bleary Joseph (1790-1843) If you look at the freehold records, the Bleary Uprichards John, Thomas, and William probably all had large farms up to at least 1820's. Finding families for these men might lead to James' father and alsoJames' brothers.  This may lead to John's father. If anyone goes to PRONI, they should take a digital camera and photograph Tullylish records and look for anything at Donaghcloney 1771-1829 that might help. 

Kat, I have been making slow progress on all the information you have added since 19-Oct-2016 and would be greatful if you could clear up a few points.

You refer to "houses", ie Bleary house.15, (5-Nov, I think you mean 16, not 15) but on the Griffiths map of the area, there is a house on 13 (a and b - Sarah and Thomas?) and an agglomeration of houses on 14 (a to n, who are Leonard and his 13 tennants), contiguous with houses a and b on 15 who do not have 'Uprichard group' names. The next nearest house is on 8, with a couple across the road on 7 and 10. So my problem is, should we refer to 'farm' or 'property', rather than to 'house', or just use the Griffiths number ?.

The Upritchard group plus Ward and Wells families lease quite a high percentage of land in this part of Bleary/Corcreeny, so its little wonder there was inter-marriage. The close proximity of the 'Uprichard group' in this area strongly supports the probability that all are decended from a common ancestor within 2-3 generations, maybe born about 1700. My family are keen to support me having a DNA analysis done, so if there are other like minded people around, stronger links may be possible.

You have found the Knocknamuckley 1857 census identifies all Bleary Uprichard males as about 30, except for Thomas and James. Does it necessarily follow that all Uprichard males as about 37 when Griffiths was published (Thomas farm.12, Leonard.14, Samuel.40/41, John.43, Robert.3/4).

In Griffiths, "your" Thomas (born 1809, Warringstown tombstone) of farms Corcreeny 34/35 is Upritchard (note the T) wheras you refer to him as Bridget (1-Nov post). I strongly suspect this Thomas is a brother of "my" John (born c.1800) of Corcreeny 28, because Thomas's (eldest ?) son James (1834-1922) emigrated to NZ soon after my gg grandfather Joseph (1830-1905) and maintained a strong connection with Joseph's children until his death.

You note that Thomas was a weaver and farmer. Our verbal history is that Joseph's father "owned some sort of spinning mill - - - ", so could well have been closely associated with his 'brother' in that activity. Joseph was a weaver on his marriage certificate, but a "farmer" to get assisted passage to NZ. Also from our verbal history "- - - he knew nothing of either land or farming".

I checked for Pritchard/Prichard in Griffiths, there being about 23 in Armagh and Down, but none in our area of interest.

There were several James. Many Johns all at the same time in both Bleary and Corcreeny.

How many Leonards were there?

You should not be surprised by spelling Oprichard when it was often recorded as Bridget. Writing style has changed over time I have attached an example.

There would be Bridget families whose name would not be abbreviated Uprichard, how do you sort them?

With Uprichard marrying Uprichard one has to wonder about inbreeding and its effect. A measure is the number of child deaths.and passing of illnesses.

EA and Kat - you do not appear to have an answer to my original request which would require a look at local records for early entries.

Yes, it was house 16.  I don't sort Bridgets from Uprichards from Upritchards except to put Bridget in parentheses to indicate this name was used.  Since some people often used both names, it seemed more important to mark them as variable rather than track when and where they used which name. The church clerk would spell things as he heard them and was often mistaken.  Waring was baptized Warren. A transcription lists Swinnerton as Livingston and the Mormon transcriptions are particularly problematic. 

If you want early records, you have to realize they are not continuous and not up to modern standards. The families used many churches, kids' & wives' names were changed so Jane is Ann or Ann Jane, and people didn't care about birthdates.  .  There was a famine and 2 revolutions with records being lost at all times, but especially then.   People have been using PRONI rental records to get back to the 1700's and some church records are available through PRONI and the Mormon libraries, mainly those after 1820.  If you want more than is commonly available you will have to ask what is available for the Bleary area in PRONI. Then you'd better see how little information the records provide to see if hiring a researcher is reasonable. I've offered the spotty Donaghcloney and Knocknamuckley records twice and you don't want them apparently. 

In Donaghcloney COI is Bleary William having James 1699 and Helena 1701.  . Bleary Alexander is having Elizabeth baptized 1701.  The rest of the nearby entries are for Bridgets/Upr from Corcreany.  The next entry I find is in a Belfast newletter about linen drapers Bleary John and John Jr in 1754.  John is in PRONI tax/voting records in 1747 and 1769.  A draper bore the costs for the weaver by warping the loom beam qith linen and passing it to a weaver.  He then collected the cloth and took it to a bleacher or took it to the Lurgan market. So this family would have had more money than most weavers.  This John, Sr. may have died in 1776 as he left a will, now destroyed.  John the younger is listed in tax records in 1780, though it may be unusual for him to be listed as a Jr after the Sr. died.  This Bleary John may be the Donaghcloney COI man who had sons Joseph 1767, Lebr 1771, and Robert 1768.  At this time John and Thomas Bridgett and George, Alexander, and John are in tax records 1760-1780.  This usually means they had land of about 20 acres, but does a draper need this amount of acreage?  The next tax records indicate there is Thomas, John, Elizabeth probably the widowed mother of John, Nancy, probably the widowed mother of William, William, son of John, and probably another Thomas in 1814.  By 1822 John with mother Elizabeth, William with mother Nancy, and Thomas hold land.  In church records you often do not find the location and wife listed, so they don;t help that much.  There are several children of Andrew Uprichard in Bleary who may have had wife Ann, but there is no record of him I can find except through kids' marriage records.  There are not even gravestones for most of the rural farmers and weavers. 

Leonard is a problem.  There is Leonard in Boconnell in 1740 and 1753.  He apparently left his farm to son? William who is there in 1816 and 1826, but no Uprichards are there in Griffiths.  This William had girls Elizabeth 1807, Susanna 1809 and Margaret 1805 baptized as Presby.  Leonard b 1819 married in the same church and had farmer William as a father. However, records are so thin until at least 1830, that I suspect most are missing.  Leonard's baptism is not there.  Was he baptized in a COI church so he could inherit?  Was this William his father?  Leonard called himself a linen manufacturer which meant he hired weavers.  All spinning had stopped by 1835 when fine linen threads developed in 1825ish became cheap and widely available.  Most people wove Cambric- did that use fine or coarsse warp threads?  I don't know. Coarse linen thread were available earlier.  So at age 28 when marrying Leonard  is possibly on a large farm and has homes built for his weavers at least by 1863.  Could this Leonard be a descendent of Bleary John the draper who had Lebr which maybe is Len via Nancy's son William? If Leonard Uprichard was blown up in 1862, is the data of Griffiths that backdated? I assumed he had a gravestone as he left under 8000 pounds, so where is his grave?

Rebecca Uprichard d. 1888 at age 87 was buried in the Quaker cemetary.  They don't use gravestones. I don't find a Quaker connection except one too late:Thomas James Uprichard, of Bleary son of James married Sarah Kirk in 1910.

David : I'm with Kat on the surname and support using the term 'Uprichard group' or something similar to cover all relevant surnames. Spelling is interesting when looking at original records. I talked briefly to Ian Maxwell, author of "Tracing Your Northern Irish Ancestors" who noted (pers comm) that if only one parent was present at a wedding, they often signed for both, thus Uprichard marrying Uprichard may not necessarily be an intermarriage. With "my" Joseph and Mary, it probably is.

Similarly with religion, people could presumably change if they wished, so it may not be very significant.

Whilst you correctly note there were many James' and John's of similar age, your original query was specific to Corccreeny 27 and 28, occupied by Thomas and John Bridgit (Griffiths), the later almost certainly my ancestor. So if you are searching for this John because you think he is an ancestor, then we could well be related. I hope to do the DNA thing before to long, so if you are also interested, we may be able to prove or disprove the connection.

Kat : Quaker Rebecca fits my picture quite well, b.1801, (maybe married John 1823 (aged 22)), died 1888 aged 87. My second cousin noted our great aunts (one being her grandmother) were pretty strict "because of their quaker upbringing", presumably as experienced by her father, but she also lived for some time with her paternal grandparents. The change to the quaker religion seems to have started with Thomas of FAIRVIEW (Tannaghmore West 1 a_b) marrying into the Christie family who were presumably quakers (Rankin - Linen Houses of the Bann Valley). Thus "my" John may have married a Quaker Uprichard from the Tullylish area, but in a CofI church because Quaker marriages may not have been recognised back then (Ian Maxwell pers comm). We don't know when John died or if Joseph's parents were alive when he emmigrated in 1862.

My hypothesis is that all the Corcreeny/Bleary 'Upritchard Group' people in Griffiths lived so close together that they must all be related. Insufficient records exist to prove it, so DNA is the next step. Thanks for your interpretation of Leonard and his tenants.

The Griffiths Valuation (1848-1864) took 24 years so, a lot of information could be outdated. For example Thomas of FAIRVIEW is in Griffiths, but it appears from Linen Houses that he died some time before publication.

No one in my Irish families left anywhere close to 8000 pounds so I checked wills.  Leonard was living at Fairview which is the former home of the Quaker 3 brothers, sons of Henry Upr.  The brothers moved to Banvale maybe by 1816 and ran a bleaching house.  No wonder no home for Leonard is listed in Griffith's, only an office.  You mentioned Thomas, one of these brothers.  I saw a tree for those folks that did not include Leonard.  However, the reseacher had reversed the marriages of William (son of Thomas's brother James' son) whose second marriage was to widowed Sarah (Bell) Jackson.  Research could have been better, so father Henry may have links to William, Leonard's father as well as the drapers John and John,Jr..  Leonard was fairly young to pull off building the homes for cottiers without help or inheritance, so he may have been loaned Quaker  money as was the custom.

to EA

DNA TEST

Get the test with National Geographic [GENO] for $ 150 gives results in depth. Then transfer data to Family Tree DNA for free. Then for a discounted cost get the Family Finder done.

Beyond this you get access to any other tests available with FTDNA

David

Do not use Ancestry they only do an autosomal test With Geno you get YDNA, MtDNA, and Autosomal plus other. The transfer to FTDNA is free. Ancrestry current chip does not permit transfer to FTNDA [the old chip did but you had to pay]

Once you have been down the path I have recommended there are public databases you can put you results on if you wish.

David

EA are my first initials. I leave the U off to confuse cyberspace hunters. Maybe it works !. Thanks for the suggestion of GENO. Web searches seem to indicate FAMILY TREE as the preferred option, perhaps with a backup from ANCESTRY. 23andME seems rather less popular and GENO did not come up in my brief search. Then there is the question of who has the biggest database for comparing the results. If advertising is any indication, ANCESTRY would appear to be the biggest. Maybe they all share DNA results ?. Opinions welcome.

Kat - Your mention of Leonard at FAIRWIEW is interesting as it seems to connect the Bleary/Corcreeny Upritchard group with the Quaker family. Rankin in Linen Houses lists Henry (1752-1794) at the top of the family tree, but notes they arrived from Wales in the early 1700's, so he could be a son or grandson of the immigrant family. His three sons, James, Thomas and Henry purchased linen bleaching works in the Tulleylish area with James and Thomas moving there and Henry remaining at Fairview. The business passed to James son, William, who has 3 areas of large land holdings in Griffiths. His brother Henry lived at Fairwiew. Fairview then passed to Henry's son James, who was a contemporary of Leonard, which begs the question that both he and Leonard may have lived at Fairview at the same time and that they were related ?. There is no Leonard in Rankins Linen Houses tree, so if he was related, it would seem he descended from another Upritchard male, possibly a brother of Henry ?.

Attached are my maps and tables of the Uprichard group distribution as in Griffiths. My main interest is in how many of the Bleary-Corcreeny families are known to be related ?. John (Corcreeny 28b) and Thomas (Corcreeny 34-35) could be brothers and possibly sons of Thomas (27 and 28a). Alan.

Kat and EA

EA - I have added a further note to the DNA post.

There was no Leonard in the Big linen tree family who according to one source arrived in Ireland in 1835. There were other Uprichard in Ireland before them some of whom were involved in the linen trade .The 1835 arrivals made very smart marriages into families with existing linen works 

Fairview was put out on lease at one stage. This was not the only residence owned by the family Springvale and Bannvale were others if memory serves me.

Leonard[i refered to] had his shop blown up and he later sought compensation from the local court. He ran a group of cottage weavers in Bleary. A son of his went out to Australia.

Here is a remake of an above message.  How you fit together these folks is beyond me.  I have guessed as well as I can.  These are the Bleary half.  People were leaving during the famine and wives were dying at childbirth.  These records are from Knocknamuckley and Donaghcloney COI and more church records need to be added before any of this makes sense.

1857 census of the Knocknamuckley church for Bleary Uprichards placed in Griffith's house order (note about 6 years difference)

House 3 Robert  32 and Margaret 31, children James 11, Elizabeth 9, Mary Ann 7, Isabella 5, Mary Jane (Mgt Jane?) 3 Rachel 1 26 acres means farmer Charles 1852 Robert 1859 Judith 1865 in  1893 will is Dinah, Samuel, James
                     from John Upr will, this may be a brother Robert also brother of Samuel with father John
                 Robert--> Mary Ann m. Robert Abraham in 1871
                 Robert-->Elizabeth m. Wilson
                  Robert--> Isabella m. McStea

House 12  not in Knocknamuckley census though there is a fair chance James is the farmer  at 15 and Thomas is 23year old brother? listed under missing.  The logic is there are 2 james Uprichards listed with no father in parentheses which means they are the same person typically.  The other James is a Bridget. .
               Possibly James weaver had son Charles b before 1845 who m. Sarah jane Wells  son James b before 1846  m. Elizabeth Wells in 1866 all in Donghcloney COI , son Robert b. 1853 who m. Mary Wells in 1873

House 13 Sarah widow of Thos Sr who was 45, Sarah 34, children Ann Jane 14 , William 11, Rebecca 9 , Jemina 7, Thomas 5, David 3, Alexander 1 James 1858
                                    Thomas Sr->  Rebecca m. James Greer in 1872
            Thomas Sr(weaver??)--> Ann jane m James Mawhirt 1864
House 14  Leonard- Presby/Quaker  b 1819 d 1862  m. Mary Ann Irvine children Margaret 1856, Leonard 1858, Dinah 1860 William, George

House 15 James 36 (farmer)   Mary 34, children Mary Anne 8, John 6, James 2, Joseph 1  farmer 18 acres Rebecca?  1853? Isabella 1858
                 James --> John m. Martha Brown in 1875
                                   James --> Rebecca m. Hugh Menagh 1876

House 17  James 52  Mary 44, William John 21, Charles 19, James 17, Mary Anne 14, Alexander 7 Robert 4  weaver ROBERT 1841
                 possibly James (weaver) --> Thomas m. Rachel Thompson 1875
                 possibly James (?) -> James (widowed weaver) m. Isabelle Holland in 1878
                 James weaver had son Charles b before 1845 who married Sarah jane Wells  son James b before 1846  m. Elizabeth Wells in 1866 all in Donghcloney COI , son Robert b. 1853 who m. Mary Wells in 1873
       

House 40  Samuel 25  Eleanor 23 his SISTER plus 2 weavers  7 acres farmer appears to have brother John and Robert and father John
                    John--> Samuel b abt 1832 married Mary Best 1858  Samuel and Mary  farmer  William John 1859, Dines  1861 Samuel 1863 Joseph is in 1911 will, not Samuel

House 43 FARM   John 30 Mary 29 children Samuel 7, William John 4, Mary Ann 2, 8 acres, appears to be Mary Ward and Samuel above is John's brother. per John's will

 Thomas --> John 25 weaver m Mary Ann (Harrison) 23, Martha 2  James infan tprobably move to Drumnagor by 1859, 1863  Thomas also Jane, the illeg of Ann Harrison and James Uprichard who went to the US.  Thomas is the father of John

 Thomas 23 m. Mary Ann Uprichard (father Andrew Upr maybe by 1853?) Nancy 2, BIL William Henry Uprichard (father Andrew Upr), Nancy 26, Andrew 1.  Nancy (Anne) is wife of Wm Upr and Andrew is his son
 Thomas and Mary have  Robert  1838 Esther  1840 John 1850   
 Thomas  (weaver) --> Mary jane b abt 1840 m. Wm Henry Upr in 1860
 Thomas (?) --> Mary Ann  m George Pollock in 1874
  John and Mary have James  1839, ROBERT 1840 Mary Ann 1848 Ann 1855 (farmer) Eleanor 1862  ??  1863 Eliza 1867 probably had Mary b 1837 m. Joseph Upr in 1856
 John (farmer)  who had son William John abt 1860 who m. Annie Doak in 1884
John and Eliza jane  had Hannah  1867
John and Eleanor have Mary 1835 weaver (  at Donagh.COI)
John  farmer had dau Hester b 1829 who m. James Ward 1848, had son John b 1828  who married Mary Ward in 1850, probably had Samuel and Robertt per son John's will
      John-->  John and Mary have Samuel 1850 weaver  (Donagh COI)  Sarah jane 1869, James 1870  weaver  John (d 1876) and Mary Ward  of Bleary in 1911 had children Samuel bapt 1853 (to Aust) Robert 1859, Mary Ann (m. Henry Hunter) Ellen or Eleanor 1861, Joshua 1863 m. Martha Stevenson, Eliza 1864, Sarah Jane 1867 m. Wm Hazelton, James 1872 m. Mary Ward, and William John.

 William and Mary have William  1839, Maria jane 1844.
  William (weaver) --> probable son Robert b abt 1848 m. Jane McCleary
William?  and Mary Jane  have james 1863
William weaver had son Thomas b. before 1873 who m. Margaret Webb 1893

  ? and Ann  had Eliza 1840
  Samuel and Sarah  had Thomas 1842
  Samuel and jane had Hiomes???  1844
James and Margaret had Mary jane 1848
James and Ellen had Isabella 1863 weaver
James and Eliza have William George  1865
  Robert and Jane farmer  john 1861  weaver in 1863 Thomas  William 1867 George 1868, Robert james 1870 Samuel Edward 1872  mfg.
Robert and Martha farmer had Susan  1876 Could this be John?? and Martha??
Andrew --> William Henry and Mary Jane (Upr)  weaver  Ann Jane 1861, Leticia 1866, Thomas 1870
                              Wm Henry--> Ann jane  m. Wm John Hamilton in 1880
                  Wm Henry first wife Nancy (Ann)  Andrew 1856
                             Wm Henry   --> Andrew m. Ellen McConnell in 1880
                              Wm Henry weaver--> James b 1865 m. Alice Clarke 1891 in Donaghcloney COI
             --> Mary Ann  m. Thomas Uprichard   abt 1855  dau Nancy per census
? and Jane had  Margaret jane 1869
 Richard (farmer) -->Samuel m. Lucinda Stevenson 1901
Curry?? and Rebecca had Elizabeth Ann 1837 (at Donagh COI)

David

I have had the standard tests done by ftDNA (yDNA, mtDNA and autosomal) but the only 'exact match' on 25 Y markers (88% chance of being related 10 generations ago) were two males in the USA with different surnames to me and to each other. Presumably I will have to join Family Finder to see if there are any links in other databases. This would also seem to indicate no other Uprichard group males have had a test done by ftDNA.

An obvious thing I missed earlier is that fathers often sub-leased to sons, so Thomas Bridget (Coorcreeny 27 and 28a) is likely to be the father of his tennant, John, on 28b, thus taking my family tree back a further generation.

Kathleen Rankin (in 'Linen Houses of the Bann Valley') suggests the wealthy linen family arrived in the early 1700's, presumably sourced from the late "Mr Albert" Uprichard, somewhat earlier than your 1835 figure.

Kat

You are right. Its very difficuilt to determine much from the information, and the Corcreeny families also have to be considered because of their close proximity. One of your records that caught my eye was 'John and Mary have James  1839, Robert 1840 Mary Ann 1848 Ann 1855 (farmer) Eleanor 1862  ??  1863 Eliza 1867 probably had Mary b 1837 m. Joseph Upr in 1856' . Mary and Joseph are my great-grandparents and our verbal history is that they were related to each other, John and daughter Mary being from Bleary farm.43 and Joseph from Corcreeny farm.28b only a short distance away. Joseph was baptised as son of John Bridget, but married and emigrated as Uprichard later changing to the Upritchard spelling in NZ. Mary's tombstone in Rangiora, NZ, says she died in 1908 aged 79 (b.1829) so it is hard to know if the marriage certificate or the tombstone is correct.

There are another three Upritchard's (note the spelling); Robert, Thomas and William almost adjoining Bleary.43 on Corcreeny farms.34,36,37 whom I strongly suspect are closely related to Mary. DNA testing of descendants may show the connections (see my earlier attachments).

Alan

David

Returning to your original question, I have entered my interpretation of Johns family in WikiTree. You will need to search Oprichard, Uprichard and Upritchard to view the whole tree.

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Oprichard-1

If you have done a DNA test, would you be able to upload it into FAMILY FINDER and ySEARCH, which would quickly identify if we share a common ancestor in the Corcreeny_Bleary area during the 1800's. I am Upritchard-7 and you can contact me privately from my WikiTree profile. I have met Uprichards in the Corcreeny-Bleary but have yet to ask them to if they would do DNA tests.

Kat and any other interested people ; please feel free to contact me privately via my WikiTree profile.

In WikiTreeI am going to change Oprichard to Uprichard and add Oprichard and Bridget as alternate spelling of the surname to make the tree more logical.

It is a long time since this blog was active and much water has passed under the Bann River bridge(s). The main progress to report is that 8 people have now done a Big-Y test with familytreedna.com as shown in the attached image. 4 are first and second Upritchard cousins from New Zealand, also a Pritchard match from Australia (possibly a fourth cousin), and two distantly related cousins from Canada. A third cousin from Canada has only tested at STR level. The eighth tester was born in Corcreeny but is now resident in NZ.

Big-Y tells us we all have a common UPRICHARD or like surname ancestor and indications are he lived in the 1600's and he or a descendant might have emigrated from Wales to the Lurgan  area of County Armagh or adjacent County Down townlands in Ireland.

As shown in the above wide ranging discussion, it has proved impossible to genealogically link families, even those in the Griffiths Valuation. Some families are recorded in the 1901 census but it is in the 1911 census that a large number of families and their locations are accurately identified. There will be many alive today who could link a lot of these families genealogically, but so far their is little evidence of them in public family trees of the common genealogical databases. WikiTree and GEDmatch are databases designed to enable sharing.

Would any Uprichard or like surname males reading this blog please consider joining the attached DISCOVERY tree by doing a Big-Y test with familytreedna.com. Ladies please persuade brothers or male cousins to test. Big-Y is expensive, so the best option is to join familytreedna.com and wait for one of their regular sales, particularly fathers day or Xmas.

Thank you. EA69 : alan.upritchard@xtra.co.nz. . . yes I know not to put an email address in the public area, but my address is now over 30 years old, so any spammer or scammer is bound to have me on their list by now !. Regrettably my 2nd cousin DavidUpp has passed away and can no longer contribute.