Murray Scotstown sheskin

Griffiths Valuation for Sheskin does not list any Murray farm there in 1860. Consequently it appears that Owen?s family arrived there some time after that. (The revaluation records, in the Valuation office in Dublin should record exactly when).

I looked for Bernard Murray in Griffiths. There?s only 1 listed in Tedavnet in 1860. He was in Derrycrossan where he had a farm, outbuildings and 11 acres of land (plot 9). Derrycrossan is the townland immediately to the north of Sheskin. They share a common boundary. The two properties were probably only a quarter of a mile apart. I?d guess therefore that that was Owens?s father.

Traditionally the farm went to the eldest son, and other sons had to make their own way, and so that may account for Owen acquiring his own farm. This looks to be a descendant of Bernard in 1901:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Monaghan/Sheskin/Derrycrossan/1640017/

Note that the widowed mother is Anne which fits with your information about Owen?s likely mother. There are 3 Bernard Murray deaths registered in Monaghan town between 1864 and 1901. 1823 ? 1873, 1809 ? 1881 & 1818 ? 1888. Probably one of those is your Bernard but you might have to order all 3 to find out which. I?d start with the one born in 1823 as that is closest to Ann?s year of birth. Bernard doesn?t appear to have left a will, or at least, not one that was probated.

Ann?s death would seem to be registered in Monaghan town Apr ? Jun 1906 vol 3, page 176. Est year of birth 1833.

Same farm in 1911:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Monaghan/Sheskin/Derrycrossan/812366/

Sheskin and Derrycorssan are in the RC parish of Tydavnet. Their baptisms start in 1835 and marriages in 1823. You can see where copies of the parish records are held from this link:

http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/browse/counties/rcmaps/

Rootsireland also have copies of the marriages from 1843 onwards, but no baptisms. There?s a match for the Murray/McKenna marriage in 1855 in Tydavnet. (Pay to view). Don?t expect too much information. RC marriages from that era usually just have the couples names and their 2 witnesses.

However if you search for baptisms (which you cannot do on the rootsireland site) you may be able to link Owen to them, plus his siblings, one of whom seems likely to be Patrick. You?? likely need to go to PRONI in Belfast or the National Library in Dublin to access the baptism records.

Bernard?s marriage to Mary Mullin was registered in Monaghan town 1873 volume 3, page 316; his marriage to Sarah Caulfield in Monaghan town Apr ? Jun 1888 Vol 3, page 220.

You can order a photocopy from GRO Roscommon for ?4 per certificate. Put the place, year, quarter (where there is one), volume & page number on the application form (anywhere). http://www.groireland.ie/ You have to post or fax the form to them but they will e-mail the copy certificate to you if you wish. Put ?please e-mail to?..? clearly on the top of the form.

Elwyn

Thank you so much didnt think i would get a response so quickly and thats great too those names in the cencus match up with the names i have for patricks children  but by the 1901 and 1911 cencus for owen i found it seems at least by the 1911 census comparing patrick to owen that owen was 10years older

i will look into the other items you mentioned in your reply thank you so! much

Ages were often significantly out in censuses and marriage certificates (where an age was shown). Nobody bothered much and so variations of up to 10 years are quite common. Likewise death certs, where the age was simply a guess by the informant.

Another factor was that the old age pension was introduced in 1909 for people aged 70 and over. Ages sometimes increased significantly between 1901 & 1911 if people thought they might qualify.

oh ok then very well it seems that i am on the right track then with this side of my family then ill have to view the other things you mentioned and order some of those certificates to be sure tho thank you again

hi,

I notice your ancestor married a Sarah CAULFIELD, CAULFIELD was my g-grandmothers name.

I have done a lot of research on the CAULFIELDs but do not have a Sarah on my tree.

I wonder if this Sarah was a sister of my g-grandmother, or maybe a cousin ??

A marriage cert should show her fathers name.

If you get the cert and her father is Henry that would make Sarah a g-grandaunt of mine.

If her father is Patrick, she would be a cousin of my g-grandmother.

It looks like Owen and Sarah never had children, I wonder if the farm passed to the son Bernard from the first marriage ??

You could try and find out if the family still live in the area.

Go to the following Website, click on the "Registration Form" link and fill in the form with as many details as possible.

www.countymonaghanfund.com

Good luck.

SEAN

Hey sean i will definitly let you know whos sarahs father is caulfields are in my family again with one of owens sisters married a james caulfield.  They had no kids because sarah was owens second wife he had 5 kids who were close to ful grown maybe thats why. Now to the part of bernard son  he wouldent have inhereted owens farm because bernard owens son went to america with his sisters however what i know he disappearded in the 30's and presumed dead