Looking for info on James O'Brien and Josie Boyleson from Thurles

Rosemary:

I located a possible record for James O'Brien in the 1911 census. No luck with Josephine.

Roger McDonnell

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Tipperary/Thurles_Urba…

Other than the mother's maiden name on the English births I also found no trace marriage or birth of Josephine under surname Boyleson in either Ireland or England, which makes me wonder if maybe she was born and/or married under a variation of her name.

There is one possibility that I think is worth checking out, a marriage in Shoreditch registration district, in London (the children's births and Josephine's death were also registered in London districts) in 1919 of a Josephine Boyle to a James O'Brien - might be worth ordering a cert for this to see if addresses, James' occupation, or even witnesses are familiar. If it's correct the cert would give you father's names to try and trace back a bit further.

The Index references are :

Quarter / Year : Dec 1919
Registration District : Shoreditch
Bride's Name : Josie Boyle    
Husband's surname : O'Brien  (James)
Volume : 1c  Page :  238     

If that marriage turns out to be correct then there's a possible birth for Josephine Boyle in Nenagh district Co. Tipperary in 1899.

Thank you shanew147.  Great minds! I did actually get that marriage certificate between Josie Boyle and James O'Brien 16th October 1919. They married in St Monica's Roman Catholic Chapel, Shoreditch by Certificate. Both aged 18 years. Address for both 27 Bucklandd St N. Parents James O'Brien deceased general labourer. Martin Boyle general labourer. Witnesses Ellen Hayes and Alf Cornish. No clues to help confirm our Josrphine.

I didn't mention this info in my first post as I didn't want to confuse the issue at this stage.

so my thoughts are that this couple are most likely one and the same as our Josie/ Josephine Boyleson. 

Son James O'Brien born few months later in 1920. But on all 3 children's births mother consistently uses BOYLESON.  So was her father Martin BOYLESON or was he Martin BOYLE? Far easier I would have thought to say her name was BOYLE on the children's births rather than Boyleson.

Have you come across this before where they use a variation of their surname?

is Nenagh near Thurles? A descendant thought family came from Thurles, not sure if O'Brien or Boyle/Boyleson. What information is available for that birth, ie will it show fathers name or do I need to order a birth certificate? Never ordered from Ireland before.

Many Thanks.

Thank you Roger.

Thank you Roger.

Thank you Roger.

A birth cert should show full names of both parents, along with place and date of birth, father's occupation etc. see notes below on how to order research certs. Since Josie/Josephine is a relatively uncommon name, this is worth investigating, if only to eliminate. Although if she did in fact end up using a different surname it seems possible that she might have altered the first name she used also... a definite connection for her is not going to be easy to prove. Did the address on that marriage appear on any of the children's birth certs ?

Variations in names and place name are quite common, but that said I've never come across the surname Boyleson before, and there's nothing promising under that surname. A search of Irish births registered between 1890 and 1910 shows no exact match for the surname with that spelling, and the closest being two or three registered as Boilson.

The town of Nenagh is located just under 40km (~24 miles) north west of Thurles, but bear in mind that the references on the BMD Index are the names of districts, so the birth I mentioned could have taken place in another part of the district, and not nessecarily in the town.

Following up on the details you mentioned for that 'O'Brien/Boyle marriage, and in particular the father's name, allowing for more variation in Josie's name, and assuming the Thurles story is correct, then there's another possible line of investigation to follow.. A Boyle family in Thurles town on the 1901 census, father Martin a labourer, mother Catherine and several children - one of the children is a 'Johanna' and close to the age reported for your 'Josie' on her death cert.  see here  I didn't find this family on the Irish 1911 census which could point to them emigrating... it's another line to follow if that Josephine Boyle born Nenagh is eliminated.

To order GRO research certs - download the order form from this link (MSWord document, Dept.of Social Protection or Welfare),

Print out a copy and enter your details in section 1, and your credit card details in section 3. Put the index references for the record you wish to order (name, record type, reg. district, record type, year/quarter, page & volume) in section 2. If you have several certs to order, you can print the references for these on a separate page and attach to the order form.

Ignore the irrelevant sections on the form such as exact date of birth etc, PPS number etc, the forms are more geared to modern official certs for legal purposes. In section 3 tick the 'photocopy' option to select the cheaper research certs. Post (or fax) the completed form to the GRO, the head office address is at the top of the form. Research cert cost € 4 if you include the references above, and no search is required.

Certs are normally delivered by post, but you can opt for delivery by email by ticking the option in section 1 and including an email address.

Thank you so much shanew147.  The information you have sent is great and I have looked at all you said.  I am inclined to agree with you.  I now think there is a strong possibility this may be Josephine's family, ie daughter of Martin and Catherine and that she was Johanna.  I can actually see a birth for a Johanna BOYLE on the birth indexes 1900 Thurles so I think I am going to order that certificate and see what is on it.

I did find a Martin BOYLE with wife Kate on the 1911 census but Johanna is not there.  She would have been about 10 or 11 and I can see a Josephine BOYLE in a different household on the 1911 census as a servant with a Mary BOYLE, maybe her sister.  These 2 girls were born in Co Tipperary so that is a possibility.

I do believe we are making progress.

I then may post another request on the Thurles list for just BOYLE rather than BOYLESON and see if the family story rings any bells with anyone.

Thank you so much for your help and also how to order the certificates, it is much appreciated.