Johanna Egan and Michael Crowe

I went to the Mormon site www.familysearch.org and found a birth index record for a Michael Crowe born in 1870 in Co. Tipperary. I also found an index record for a baptism of a Michael Crowe on Feb. 22 1870 in Cappawhile Tipperary- parents were Patrick Crowe and Mary Anne Ryan. You can write to the GRO www.groireland.ie and get a copy of the birth record. Fill out their form and provide Tipperary as the registration district, 1870 and the volume and page number shown in the first record below.

Roger McDonnell

• NameMichael Crowe
• Event TypeBirth
• Event Date1870
• Event PlaceTipperary, Ireland
• Registration Quarter and Year1870
• Registration DistrictTipperary
• Age
• Birth Year (Estimated)
• Mother's Maiden Name
• Volume Number3
• Page Number759

• parents:Patrick Crowe, Mary Anne Ryan

From the Index listings at IFHF (http://www.rootsireland.ie):  

Civil Marriage

Co Tipperary North

Parish:   Borrisoleigh (CR)

Year:  1899

Bride:  Johanna Egan

Groom:  Michael Crowe

Groom's Father:  John Crowe

NOTE:  I have not seen the actual record; you have to pay for that.  I cannot get anything to come up for the Bride's father or mother, or Groom's mother (this info probably not on the marriage record even if you do purchase it, otherwise I'd be able to determine at least their first names, by trial and error).  However, the record might include witnesses to the marriage, occupation of Michael and his father John and perhaps an address.  

You can cross reference this record on the IFHF to both Ancestry.com and familysearch.org

(see https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FYZ4-936) :  

  Date of Registration:  Jul-Aug-Sep 1899  Registration district:  Thurles  Volume:  3  Page:  396  FHL Film Number:  101259 

Again more index records from IFHF (rootsireland.ie):  

Baptism records for children born city of Limerick to Parents Michael Crowe and Johanna Egan Parish: LIMERICK NO. 2:

William 1902, Johanna 1903, Patrick 1910, Thomas 1911.  

William and Patrick appear on the 1911 census; Johanna and Thomas do not (but then Johanna does indicate that she has born a total of 7 children and that only 5 are living so it would appear that the Johanna and Thomas may have died as young children?)    Can't find a baptism record for Michael b c1908 (although there is one listed as being born 1911 with a father named Michael Crowe in the same parish but the mother's name is not given).    Also can't find one for Josephine b c1905 in Limerick City nor one for John/Jack born c1901 in Co Tipperary.   You also state in another post "Research led me to believe she may have been born on 7th July, 1877 in  Thurles. Her parents would have been Patrick Egan and Margaret Delany."  This looks like her in 1901 in her parental home:  http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tipperary/Borrisnoe/Crimlin_Big/1701675/ And it also would appear to me that her future hubby Michael Crowe in 1901 (who in 1911 is listed as a Tailor) is living here in 1901:  (listed as a shopman / draper)  http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Limerick/Limerick_No__3_Urban_District/George_Street/1499422/ 

It's like piecing together a huge jigsaw puzzle without a picture to help!

One of the records has to be incorrect, as Michael's father can't be both Patrick AND John. It seems more likely that Michael's father is John - as Michael definitely married Johanna Egan. My grandfather was also John Crowe (but then again, his brother was Patrick... pretty common names in Ireland.)

I didn't realise what a popular name Michael Crowe is. I'd never heard of another one outside my immediate family until Russell Crowe became famous!

Thank you. I'll keep researching.

I've come across these records too, but had initially dismissed them as I believed my grandfather had been born in 1900 - meaning Johanna and Michael would have been married by the time of the 1901 census or there would have been a record of my grandfather - aged about 1 in 1901. However,  my mum revealed that he probably added a year onto his age so that he could join the army in 1916 and come to England.  Therefore, this could possibly be the same Johanna Egan who was either pregnant or about to be! Michael could quite possibly have been working in Limerick, which might explain why they moved there eventually. 

I believe that birth record that was found for Michael Crowe born on 22 Feb 1870 in Cappawhite to Patrick Crowe and Mary Anne Ryan is actually for a Michael  William Crowe who is found living w/ his parents Patrick Crowe, JP (Justice of the Peace) and Mary Ann[e] nee Ryan listed under the name William in both 1901 and 1911 census records.  

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tipperary/Cappagh/Kilmore/1717030/ 

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Tipperary/Cappagh/Kilmore/908971/

I know for certain that this Patrick Crowe died on 8 Sep 1912 as his obit was published in the Irish American Weekly newspaper on Sat 28 Sep 1912 and goes as follows:  "NEWS FROM ALL PARTS OF IRELAND.  TIPPERARY.  The death of Mr. Patrick Crowe, J. P., Cappawhite, occurred on the 8th inst.  The deceased gentleman was very popular among all classes, and his deah has left a void which will not soon be filled in the social life in the district.  As a magistrate, he was remarkable for his calm and unprejudiced judgement.  We tender to his sorrowing family our sincere sympathy in their sad bereavement."  And his death record can be found here:  familysearch.org; https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FRVM-CM7

And I believe his wife Mary Anne Crowe nee Ryan (possibly d/o Jeremiah Ryan and Judith Gleeson) died in 1915:  https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FRKM-PM9

I don't think that "your" Michael's father is this particular Patrick Crowe, JP of Kilmore, Cappa White Co Tipperary!  Fairly sure that the marriage record found online at IFHF http://www.rootsirland.ie to Johanna Egan stating his father's name as John is correct.  What was the source of your info that your Michael Crowe was born in Cappa White?  

I just did a search and at the time he was the only Michael Crowe I could find born in 1870 in Tipperary. However, I think John Ryan is the most likely person to be the father of Michael.

I think having someone who was a magistrate/JP would have filtered down to the family. As far as I know, my great grandfather and his father were tailors. The story is that Michael's father (John?) worked in a shop on the equivalent of Saville Row. I'd love to be able to verify all these stories. 

Michael also joined the 7th Cavalry in USA but came back to Ireland. How could I verify this?

I purchased the above record, which is very interesting. Johanna's father is listed as William Egan, labourer. They were from Kilcummin - but I can't find it on a map! They were married in the Parish of Borrisoleigh which I can find, but not Kilcummin or its church. Only one I can find is in Kerry. Can you help me that one, please?

You say  "Michael also joined the 7th Calvary in USA but came back to Ireland.  How could I verify this?"  Well, many different ways BUT you need more information.  Assuming he was born c1870 in Ireland in order for him to be old enough to enlist in the USA he'd have to have been around 18, which means he couldn't have enlisted until around 1888 - and since the civil war by that time was long over, he could only have enlisted in the US Regular Troops.  The 7th Calvary is pretty famous - it's the unit that fought and was massacred at Little Big Horn with General Custer.  And there was a indeed an Irish born man named Michael Crowe who fought on 25 June 1876 and survived Little Big Horn (This Michael Crowe born c1849 Co Cork  - d 1883 in the Dakota Territory USA ) but this gentleman does not fit with what you know of your Michael Crowe at all!  I'm wondering if your family somehow got the story confused?  As I said, your Michael Crowe would have had to have been in the USA between c1888 and have returned to Ireland by 1899 to marry Johanna Egan.  You are going to have to comb the internet sites that deal with the 7th Calvary and see if you can find out if your fella was enlisted sometime between say 1888 and 1898.  If he was, there should be some very detailed records available through NARA (for instance if you can deterine that he was actually part of the 7th Calvary, you should be able to order his compiled military service record online).   And of course, there SHOULD be some where both a ship manifest where he came INTO the USA and when he RETURNED to Ireland.  Have you ANY idea WHEN he was in the USA or even WHERE in the USA?  

I've been doing a little more research into my family history based on the marriage record for 7 Aug 1899.

http://tipperarynorth.rootsireland.ie/view_detail.php?recordid=831064&type=mcv&recordCentre=tipperarynorth&page=1

This states that Michael Crowe, son of John Crowe married Johanna Egan, daughter of William Egan in Kilcummin (Kilcommon?). Borrisoleigh (the parish) is known for the Cormack Petition and I found quite a few Crowes and Egans on the list of petitioners:

http://www.irelandgenweb.com/irltip/Records/CormackPetitionCtoE.htm

Maybe they were my ancestors too.

The catholic church at Kilcommon has a Father McKeogh, who was listed as the priest on the marriage certificate. I found this interesting story about him too. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rearcross

I'll keep searching. I can't find anything on my great-grandfather's 7th Cavalry career. My mum wonders if it's her great grand-father (John Crowe) who went to America. The story is that he killed a man in Ireland and then jumped on a boat to America. Apparently his name was Reynolds. While he was in America he had his nose broken by a Crow indian and adopted the name Crowe, before coming back to Ireland. Who knows? 

I've been doing a little more research into my family history based on the marriage record for 7 Aug 1899.

http://tipperarynorth.rootsireland.ie/view_detail.php?recordid=831064&type=mcv&recordCentre=tipperarynorth&page=1

This states that Michael Crowe, son of John Crowe married Johanna Egan, daughter of William Egan in Kilcummin (Kilcommon?). Borrisoleigh (the parish) is known for the Cormack Petition and I found quite a few Crowes and Egans on the list of petitioners:

http://www.irelandgenweb.com/irltip/Records/CormackPetitionCtoE.htm

Maybe they were my ancestors too.

The catholic church at Kilcommon has a Father McKeogh, who was listed as the priest on the marriage certificate. I found this interesting story about him too. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rearcross

I'll keep searching. I can't find anything on my great-grandfather's 7th Cavalry career. My mum wonders if it's her great grand-father (John Crowe) who went to America. The story is that he killed a man in Ireland and then jumped on a boat to America. Apparently his name was Reynolds. While he was in America he had his nose broken by a Crow indian and adopted the name Crowe, before coming back to Ireland. Who knows? 

Hi, I can tell you something about Michael Crowe born on Feb. 22 1870 in Cappawhile Tipperary with parents Patrick Crowe and Mary Anne Ryan. They are part of my extended family. First let us go back to the beginning of church records - to Patrick's parents William Crowe and Johanna Ryan who were married on 15 Feb 1819 at Cappawhite and they lived in Kilmore townland of Cappagh near the village of Cappawhite. These are their children baptised on these dates:

Thomas Croagh 4 Aug 1820 of 'Cappa'
Mary Croagh 20 Jul 1823 of Cappagh
Patt Croagh 10 Apr 1826 of Cappagh
Bgt Crowe 17 Sep 1830 of Capernahalla
Margt Croagh 12 Jn 1833 of Cappagh (stated that she was born at the Rookery, Cappagh)
John Crowe 14 Apl 1836 of Cappagh
Mary Croagh 7 Jan 1842 of Cappagh

The names Crowe, Croagh, Croke, Croak etc were interchangeable at this time, and only became standardised later in the 1800s. The father William Crowe was a shopkeeper in Cappawhite, and his wife and children carried on this occupation. Your ancestor Patt or Patrick is the third child and he lived a long life and became quite famous in Cappawhite as a Justice of the Peace (JP.) I have copied a glowing obituary for him below. We believe that the 6th child John is the future parish priest of Cappawhite Fr John R Crowe (1836-1899.)

Patrick married Mary Anne Ryan of Dundrum (which is where his mother Johanna Ryan came from - I have a newspaper article describing her funeral dated 1888 and I can send you a copy if you wish) on 31 Jan 1858 in Cappawhite. Their children were:

Hanora Crowe 1864–1914
Patrick Crowe 1867–
Michael Crowe 1870–1954
William Crowe 1870–
Mary Anne Crowe 1871–
Johanna Mary Crowe 1873–
Joseph Crowe 1876–

Your Michael is of course the third child. I hope I have his date of death correct. Best wishes across the generations. I descend from William Crowe b 1795's brother Richard Crowe b 1798.

Irish American Weekly newspaper on Sat 28 Sep 1912 and goes as follows:  "NEWS FROM ALL PARTS OF IRELAND.  TIPPERARY.  The death of Mr. Patrick Crowe, J. P., Cappawhite, occurred on the 8th inst.  The deceased gentleman was very popular among all classes, and his death has left a void which will not soon be filled in the social life in the district.  As a magistrate, he was remarkable for his calm and unprejudiced judgement.  We tender to his sorrowing family our sincere sympathy in their sad bereavement."

Has this been resolved?

With the Irish governments free website www.irishgenealogy.ie all these records are easily searched for?