Looking for my origins of my great grandfather

There are several Jeremiahs around in this time frame. These two may be worth a close look.

http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/efe8360502211

http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/e09d950157520

Bob Graham (County Fermanagh XO)

Bob, 

Thank you for the response. Don't think either one was him. His mother's name was Johanna Sullivan. Neither one of the mother's were thus named. Really appreciate your response, though. 

James O'Shea 

Chicago

Dear James, many South Kerry people went to Montreal. I am wondering can you dig any deeper there for colleagues/friends/neighbours who might be able to give us a placename.The Census records?

My difficulty here is how common the names are.. I did however find a marriage

http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/search.jsp?namefm=Mortimer+&namel=O'Shea&exact=&name2fm=Johanna&name2l=Sullivan&location=&dd=&mm=&yy=&diocese=KERRY+(RC)&parish=&type=M&century=&decade=&sort=&pageSize=100&ddB=&mmB=&yyB=&ddM=&mmM=&yyM=&ddD=&mmD=&yyD=&locationB=&locationM=&locationD=&member0=&member1=&member2=&member3=&member4=&member5=&member6=&member7=&member8=&member9=&namef0=&namef1=&namef2=&namef3=&namef4=&namef5=&namef6=&namef7=&namef8=&namef9=&namel0=&namel1=&namel2=&namel3=&namel4=&namel5=&namel6=&namel7=&namel8=&namel9=&keyword=&submit=Search

although the date is wrong and it is in nearby Castletownbeare, Co. Cork, I wondered because of the name Mortimer might there be some connection.

I know that people get fed up with me saying this but please look for cousins in the States/Canada who may have some snippet of information which could be useful. Have you traced all the family there to the present day. Sometimes we have to come forward to be able to go back..sometimes women who marry into families maintain closer ties with their own people. I found my granuncle in the States through the relationship his wife maintained with her family in Ireland. My own family had lost contact.

I know it can be maddening but please don't give up. Your Mary who married into the Shea amily could turn out to be a goldmine. What do you know about her?

I can't wait to hear

Martine

Martine, 

Thanks so much for the reply and advice. I was for years the sole surviving male in my father's branch of the family. By the time I was old enough to try and learn anything, most of my Dad's relatives were dead. So the pool of relatives that I can question is tiny if not non-existant.

One thing you said provoked a question: Why did so many people from south Kerry go to Canada? Also I think the Jeremiah O'Shea who was imprisoned in 1854 for pulling and stealing potatoes could have been my great grandfather. He was sentenced to 30 days hard labor. Do you know of any source i could tap to find out what the court and prision system was like then? What happend to people sentenced to hard labor, were they put on a chain gang or what?

As I said before, any help will be appreciated. And I'm not going to stop digging. I am a journalist by craft and know that there's always one more bend in the road on the route to a good story. 

Regards, 

James O'Shea 

James,

As I've never come across the name Mortimer in all my Ireland searching, I thought that might be a good start.  I did a random 1901 census search of the name Mortimer in County Kerry and up popped the DED Dawros.  There is also a townland.  There are quiite a number of Sullivan/O'Sullivan & Shea/O'Shea names in the area.   The name Mortimer is commonly used.  

I'm not familiar with the area but found it on Google maps.

https://maps.google.com/maps?oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&q=dawros+county+…

Wikipedia says the civl parish is Tuosist.  It is near the border of Cork.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuosist

Here is the civl parish in the Griffiths. 

http://www.failteromhat.com/griffiths/kerry/tuosist.htm

Looks like there's a Catholic parish of Tuosist also.  Maybe someone local can give you some suggestions for searching in Ireland in this and nearby parishes.  Sure looks like a beautiful spot.  

Your names are so common, I'd agree with Martine on posting on some forums to find some other cousins who are researching..  Keep it simple and include names, birth years and possible locations, parish.    Also search the forums yourself for other Shea/Sullivan and Dawros/Kerry researchers.  Ask questions and you may find a connection. 

Cathy

Chicago

James,

A couple more things.  In the Griffiths there is a Patrick from the townland of Clogherane which is rather close to the Cloherane name you referenced.

There are quite a few Sheas and Sullivans there.  The names Mortimer, Jeremiah, Johanna & Patrick are represented.   

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/results.jsp?census_year=19…

Also saw this Tuosist website. Can't tell if it is very active.

http://www.tuosist.com/welcome.html

And there is a Facebook page which seems ot have a lot of local posts.  You might reach out there.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/192967684890/

There is a Kathleen O'Shea researching Sullivan and Shea in the same area.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/192967684890/permalink/1015056102062989…

Cathy

Cathy, 

Did you ever get my note with some questions? 

Best, 

James O'Shea 

if not, my direct email is jamesoshe@gmail.com

James,

Maybe I can help you since I have been doing my own research on the Sullivans & Sheas in Tuosist Parish.

My guess is that Jeremiah came first to New York before he went to Canada and St Louis. The 1859 date of his Intent to Naturalize means that he was in the US by 1857, since there was a 2 year waiting period. I have looked at the Castle Garden www.castlegarden.org records for Jeremiah from 1849 to 1860, and see only 1 Jeremiah O'Shea (arrival 1849)  and several Jeremiah Sheas. I suggest you do a more thorough search than I did. If you find any good prospects, then check the ship manifests at Ancestry (if you have an account).

If you think he might have arrived prior to July 1855, you should check the NY State census for NY City. Unfortunately it is not indexed. The emigrants from Tuosist parish were the poorest of the poor, and most of them lived in what was called the Lansdowne Enclave in the Five Points area of Manhattan. There was a great description of this area on the internet, but it has recently been taken down. I can send you a copy if you ask. Anyway, the 1855 census of this area can be found at LDS Film 1018653, Ward 6, Election District 3.

If he arrived after 1855 he might be found in the 1860 US Census Film 0803791, Ward 6, District 4.

I also did a quick search of the New York Emigrant Savings Bank, 1850-1883 records at Ancestry, but did not find a Jeremiak O'Shea account that fit your ancestor. These records are filled with great genealogical information, so you may want to redo my search.

There were many good reasons to leave NYC. The Five Points area was considered the worst slum in the world, there were several outbreaks of cholera, and the Civil War riots occurred in the area.

On the other hand, if, in fact, he went to Canada prior to going to NY, I suggest you read pages 95-97 of "The Lansdowne Estate under W. S. Trench 1849-72" which you can get (30 Euros-best price and worth it) at http://geographypublications.com/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=34&MMN_position=39:34

Over 1300 Lansdowne emigrants arrived in Quebec in 1851-52, and most of them eventually made their way to Boston & NY. Incidentally, on page 96 it refers to Jeremiah O'Shea, estate bailiff and businessman, who oversaw the emigration to Canada. There are several other references to him in the book.

I looked up Daurus on the internet and found this article, http://www.libraryireland.com/topog/T/Tuosist-Glanerough-Kerry.php  It references Daurus within the RC division of Carks. Looking up Carks at http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&tab=wl shows a townland named Dawros less than a kilometer away. I'm sure Daurus is the present day Dawros. The baptism of Johanna Shea that you found at www.irishgenealogy.ie with the Jeremiah Shea name and others is interesting. However if you look at all the baptisms in Daurus, you will also find the same parents had a son, Darby on 27 April 1845. Darby happens to be one of the nicknames for Jeremiah. So unless your Jeremiah's birth date is 1845, not 1831 or 1835, this is not your family. Sorry.

By the way, in order to get all the Daurus baptisms, at the starting search page, http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/, only enter the townland name of Daurus. You might be interested to know that sometimes the spelling or transcription of the townland was not done correctly, and other Daurus baptisms are found if you search DARUS, DAURAS, DAURU, and DAURUSES.

Keep searching. If I can help, let me know.

Don Flinn

    .  

Dear Don, your research is only amazing! Thank you so much for sharing all this. Are you already one of the Parish Liasons for Ire Reaching Out..if not I would love to see you consider it! South Kerry needs many more...

Cynthia at head office in Loughrea would be more than happy to talk over the role with you. Tuosist for example is still without a Parish Liason.

http://www.irelandxo.com/group/tuosist-kerry 

and yes Dawros is also spelled Daurus.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Martine

Don, 

Thanks so much for your thorough and intelligent post re. my great-great grandfather. I, too, noticed the baptism of Darby Shea. The same parents also baptised another son, John, my father's name, in 1866. I doubt they would have named two sons Jeremiah. So I, too, figured that's not them. 

Do you have any thoughts on the Jeremiah O'Shea I found in the prison records. He was given 30 days hard labor for "pulling and stealing potatoes" in 1853. His birth date was listed in the record as 1831, which would have been Jeremiah's birth date if his death certificate is accurate (he died in 1904 at age 73), and it said he was from County Kerry Clohereen (that was the spelling as near as I can make out the long-hand writing) even though the record is from a prison in County Waterford. 

I also ran across a possible connection for Jeremiah's father. There was an obit in the Cork Examiner for a Patrick O'Shea who died in 1863. It said he was from Killarney. I think Clohereen is an area of Kllarney. So that's another hint. Any idea of how I might get a hold of that obit? 

Lastly there was a Jeremiah O'Shea and a Patrick O'Shea in a prison record from Nenagh in Tipperary in July of 1850. Juding from the entry, they might have been related as both names were listed together and the jailer listed one of them, Jeremiah, as younger. He would have been around 21 at the time and Patrick, which could have been an older brother, was 28. They were arrented and imprisoned for "Riot." Interestingly, a Jeremiah O'Shea with an address as Nenugh, was listed as a signator to the William Smith O'Brien petition seeking leniency for the participant in the McCormick Cabbage patch rebellion in 1948. 

You are clearly someone who knows what he is doing in this research. So any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated. Where are you from? I'm in Chicago. I also posted a message seeking help on the Tuouist page. If Ican be of any help to you in any way, don't hestiate to write. 

Best, 

James O'Shea, great-great grandson of Jeremiah in Chicago. 

you are in Tralee. I took a bike ride in Ireland and visited Tralee several years ago. They were worked on the ship just north of town and I went out there to have a look. We had a pleasant stay there and then biked north. Beautiful area. 

Best, 

James O'Shea 

James,

Interesting that the 1853 Waterford prison record says "Cloherren, County Kerry." There is a Clogherane in Waterford County only 30 miles from Waterford city. They probably were specific about Kerry to protect the Waterford County reputation.

You have a choice of possible Clogherane/Cloghereen locations in Kerry. Here is a map http://goo.gl/maps/ViyhH which shows where they are today, including one in Cobb and one in Waterford.

If you think the Tuosist parish is likely (A), you can go to www.IRISHGenealogy,com and check the b,m,d records for traces of your family. Use this list (one at a time) of Townland Name Variations  that are similar to Clogherane/Cloghereen in the "Location" box. These are the variations that appear in the Baptism records.

CLAHERANE
CLOGHERANE
CLOHEHAN
CLOHER
CLOHERAN
CLOHERANE
CLOHERANE.
CLOHERANN
CLOHERARAUM
CLOHERAUN
CLOHIRANE
CLOHORANE
CLUHERANE

If you think the Killarney parish is likely (D,E,F), use this list.

CLOGHACURREEN
CLOGHANE
CLOGHAREEN
CLOGHEEREEN
CLOGHEEREN
CLOGHEERREEN
CLOGHEMEEN
CLOGHER
CLOGHEREAN
CLOGHEREEEN
CLOGHEREEN
CLOGHERREAN
CLOGHERREEN
CLOGHERREERE
CLOGHERREN
CLOGHREEN
CLOHERBREEN
CLOHEREEN
CLOHERREEN
CLOHORINE
CLOHREEN
CLOKEREEN
CLOOHEREEN
CLOONEEN
CLOONTEENS
CLOREHEEN
CLORHEEN
CLOUGHEREEN
CLOUGHREEN
CLUGHERREEN
CLUHERREEN

I'm in Atlanta now, but originated in Yonkers, NY.

The Tuosist site is relatively quiet. I contacted Daniel Dusoswa [admin@tuosist.com] back in 2011. We do need someone to take charge of this parish for Irelandxo.

Regards,

Don Flinn

James,

"The same parents also baptised another son, John, my father's name, in 1866. I doubt they would have named two sons Jeremiah. So I, too, figured that's not them. "

I don't know the dates of these events, but re-using  the name of an infant who died young was very common in Ireland. In my own tree one couple had 3 sons all named Robert - only the third one survived to adulthood. If you are working on the traditional naming pattern to establish the previous generation you MUST be able to account for every child who was born to a couple- not just the ones you know about. To make life more complicated I have noticed that infant burials are conspicuously thin on the ground in church records and I do not know why. Whether the clergy thought it unnecessary to record them I don't know but I have come across relatively few infants in the C of I records.

Bob Graham (County Fermanagh XO)

Bob,

In answer to your comment about the few infant burials in church records, the RC Irish buried their unbaptised infants (and other types of individuals whose lives and deaths deviated from perceptions of normal life-courses) in unconsecrated ground in places called cillini (also killeen, killeenagh, calluragh). There are remains of hundreds of these in County Kerry. I know of one  near a ring fort in the community of Garranes where my people came from. See this article: http://www.unh.edu/anthropology/media/spectrum/2012/spectrumFall2012_Pankey.pdf

Regards,

Don Flinn