McCarthy / Clifford

Dear Joan, Happy St. Patrick's day to you too!

Can you send me the link for Julia's birth/baptism as this will help me to narrow down the search?

I am looking forward to following this up for you.

Martine

Hi Martine

Thank you so much for offering to help.I have only worked out it's Tralee from searching Irish Genealogy site.I have a marriage and death certificate giving parents names as John McCarthy farmer and Margaret Clifford.The only John and Margaret I could find through site above and Ancestry.com lived around that time in Tralee.Julia came to New Zealand 1884 on ship Doric left London 30th August and arrived Wellington17th October.She gave birth to a girl 16th December 1884.In 1887 the child was left with the Sisters of Mercy St Josephs Orphanage here in Wellington NZ.The child named Mary or Margaret was my Grandmother.On the ships log shes down as coming from County Kerry the same on marriage and death certificate.Years in NZ matches age in all details.She stayed at place in Ingestre St Wellington have found a George McCarthy there at same time and little later a Moses a Thomas and Henry William none of these were born in NZ.So I wondered if they may be family.I found a birth 1867 boy Micheal to John McCarthy and Margaret Clifford Tralee County Kerry.Apart from this I know nothing else as the years pass more quickly I really want to make that connection with my relatives.

                                                      I cant put into words Martine how grateful I am

                                                                     God Bless You

                                                                         Joan

Dear Joan, best option at this stage is to email St. John's Church,Tralee

http://stjohnscastlestreet@eircom.net

with the details you have.

Do ask them to include ALL the details on the record. We will possibly need to go through a process of elimination. Do remember that it may take a little time as the people who search the records in the parish are volunteers.

John Mc Carthy would have been at least 58 at the time of the 1901 census. I found one possibility but the wife is much younger. He is either the wrong John or he remarried.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Kerry/Tralee_Urban/Caherane_Road/1431684/

In the meantime if you could send me the irishgenealogy links that would assist me greatly.

Do let me know how you get on with the parish records. I am really hoping for a breakthrough for you.

Martine

To Martine

Thanks so much I will email St Johns Church as you suggested and see what comes from that.Yes I think it will be a process of elimination.The link for Irish Genealogy is www.irishgenealogy.ie/

                                   Thank You So Much Martine

                                      Kindest Regards

                                         Joan West

Dear Joan, the exact link is the one I'm looking for. If you give me the links or the details they contain I could hopefully do more for you. I searched and could not find the records. If I have the places for example I may know someone from the place who could help.

The National Cenus of 1901 is online too http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/  but without a townland name it could be like looking for a needle in a haystack.

Did John and Margaret die in Tralee?

What dates did Moses, Thomas and Henry appear in NZ?

I look forward to hearing from you.

Martine

Hi Martine

I have been searching frantically to find any info that might help.I apoligise Julia McCarthy birth was on Ancestry.co I went to search at top of screen and  then scrolled down to countries United Kingdom and Ireland then map comes up and I clicked on Ireland and put details in.Igot some extra info but not parents names Julia McCarthy Volume20 Page617 FHL 101041.I have no idea what they mean but maybe you do.I am hoping so.

I have found Moses McCarthy came to NZ in 1877 on ship Carnatic age 22yrs with an Honora McCarthy age 23yrs.But they were from Limmerick so it gets more confusing.I havnn't found Henry William and there is several Thomas's so will keep looking.

I have been in touch with Sacred Heart Basillica in Wellington and found there were only 3 parishes in Wellington area in 1884.The only baptisim record for a female born around that time had the Mother down as Johanna not Julia everything else matches and Fathers name was written in as well he was Patrick Griffin and it was also on the certificate that the child was illegitimate. The baptisim was at St Mary of The Angels in Wellington.

Seems the more info I get the more confusing it all is. Maybe Martine you might be able to understand itmore than I am at the moment.

                                                                 God Bless You and Thank You So Much

                                                                                            Joan

Dear Joan , this confusion often happens to us when we are tracing our families so you are not alone! I have a suggestion to make to you which really helps people. Make a timeline, in other words start with yourself like this.

Joan date of birth/place of birth

sibligs if any dob/pob

parents marriage date and place

siblings if any dob/pob

grandparents marriage date and place

and so on. Notice where you have blank spaces and put a question mark beside anything you are not sure of. This will help you avoid tracing someone who is not related to you. Include the origin of your information, for example is it a church or state record.

When you have this done, you will be clear about what you have and can depend on and what is a bit shaky and needs further investigation. It will also show you how much you do know already!

Sometimes it is easier to access records/iformation about a related person who may lead you back to your direct  ancestors. Your timeline should also show you this. This method may take a full evening but you will never regret the time you spend on it and it will save you countless hours down the road.

Never underestimate the value of contacting 'cousins/in-laws' in the country you live in who may have knowledge of family  stories unknown to you. Visit if possible, if not write/email/phone. Even if the initial contact is diappointing, sometimes people remember things later. 

The information you found re. Julia, Vol.... refers to a set of paper records. the site should tell you what records they are and where they are kept. You may be able to request a copy of the records. This usually incurrs a small fee.

You may be running into some difficulty here also because of the way births like Margaret's were treated in times gone by. Does the mother's address/place of residence give you any information? Was Julia living with a family or was she living in a church-run mother and baby home?

Let me know what comes from creating a timeline and if you can discover anymore about the circumstances of Margaret's birth.

And don't give up hope! I remember well finding thousands of John Hurley's (my granuncle) in the US records and being totally disheartened until I gave up looking for him and found his wife instead.. and via her finding a longlost first cousin of my mother.

Warm wishes

Martine 

Hi Martine

Thank You So Much for all your help and suggestions.It's difficult because both my Mother and Grandmother were illegitimate. I only have records for my Grandmother from the age of 4yrs.I have already done a timeline so I will just keepsearching.It took years to find my Grandmother here in NZ.

                                        Thank You and Kind regards

                                                   Joan

Dear Joan, you have been on my mind a great deal. Were St. John's parish Tralee able to help at all? The records are in remarkably good condition though sadly there are gaps. Did you have any luck applying to ancestry.com for the certificate they describe? 

It might also be useful to trace Moses roots in Limerick although he may have simply sailed from there. I have had a further thought that Moses (which would be a VERY unusual name) might be from the name Mossie which was a nickname for Maurice.

Do let me know how you are getting on.

Thiking of you

Martine

Hi Martine

I've been off line for a few days and going back over all my written records.Thank you so much for thinking of me.Life has changed so much here for a lot of people in the last 2yrs after the devestating earthquakes.It makes us all realise how important our family is and to Thank God for them.

I have heard back from St John's Parish with several great suggestions but what I have done is ordered a copy of the birth certificate from The General Register in Dublin so i'm hoping it's the one.I will let you know.

I have also found a George McCarthy at the Wellington address where Julia had her child.I've no idea how this fits in with her but will keep looking.

I have also started collating all immigration records for McCarthy's up to 1900 and see what comes out of that.

I have found what I beleive to be the birth record of Moses McCarthy born 4th January 1857 Monagea County Limmerick R/C to Moses McCarthy and Ann Harnett the sponors were David and Elizabeth Mescal.I found these through Roots Ireland.The age matches with immigration and death records so must be same one.How again this fits in with Julia is still a mystery.

So will keep in touch Martine And Bless You.

                         Joan

Hi Martine

I've been off line for a few days and going back over all my written records.Thank you so much for thinking of me.Life has changed so much here for a lot of people in the last 2yrs after the devestating earthquakes.It makes us all realise how important our family is and to Thank God for them.

I have heard back from St John's Parish with several great suggestions but what I have done is ordered a copy of the birth certificate from The General Register in Dublin so i'm hoping it's the one.I will let you know.

I have also found a George McCarthy at the Wellington address where Julia had her child.I've no idea how this fits in with her but will keep looking.

I have also started collating all immigration records for McCarthy's up to 1900 and see what comes out of that.

I have found what I beleive to be the birth record of Moses McCarthy born 4th January 1857 Monagea County Limmerick R/C to Moses McCarthy and Ann Harnett the sponors were David and Elizabeth Mescal.I found these through Roots Ireland.The age matches with immigration and death records so must be same one.How again this fits in with Julia is still a mystery.

So will keep in touch Martine And Bless You.

                         Joan

Dear Joan, the Monagea bord is not active yet but they have some information up about the parish at http://www.irelandxo.com/group/monagay-limerick which you might find useful.

I have also passed the information on about Moses to some colleagues who may be able to help. 

In the meantime, just on the off chance that Moses is a family name for that branch of the Mc Carthys I searched the 1901 census. Here is what I found, a 12 yr old Moses, son of John 

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Limerick/Glengort/Knocknadiha/1507434/

and here he is aged 22, a postman, in the 1911 census. But there is also a 49 yr old Moses in Monagea.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/results.jsp?census_year=1911&surname=Mc+Carthy&firstname=Moses&county=Limerick&townland=&ded=&age=&sex=&search=Search&relationToHead=&religion=&education=&occupation=&marriageStatus=&birthplace=&language=&deafdumb=&marriageYears=&childrenBorn=&childrenLiving=

I am feeling very excited Joan. Moses is such an unusual name in Ireland so I am hoping your Moses and this one are related.

I'm going to go offline now and see if I can find out anymore.

Fingers crossed!

M

Dear Joan, I have found a John Mc Carthy in Griffith's Valuation in Monagea/Monagay, townland Ballymurragh East

http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=doNameSearch&PlaceID=1703365&county=Limerick&barony=Glenquin&parish=Monagay&townland=Ballymurragh,%20east

I have about another hour before I must cook dinner.

Martine

Hi Martine

It's fantastic having your help from over there Thank You.I am going to the library to check through our postal directories for Wellington in the 1800s.Just see if anything pops up.Moses was the proprieter of The Panama Hotel

in Wellington in the 1890s.I will let you know how I get on.

                                            Bless You

                                               Joan

Hi Joan, I am in the process of tracking down someone who may be able to give us some more help. It may take a couple of weeks but I will be in touch as soon as I have anything more for you.

Warm wishes

Martine

Hi Martine

That would be great if they can help.I am forever hopeful on this journey and to now have you helping me as much as you are is wonderful..I will keep you updated on news from this end.

                                                Kindest Regards

                                                     Joan

Hi Martine

Hope to have had some positive news for you as I have heard back from General Register Dublin.The information I sent them on Julia McCarthy Tralee 1864 they have come back and said that the parents are a John Mccarthy and Mary Ahern.Now I have a record here of a birth for a Julia McCarthy 1864 to John McCarthy and Mary Ahern but the birth and baptisim took place in Castleisland and it's listed with all the other births including the one in Tralee.

I think it would be very unusual to have all the same names and yet be different births what do you think?

If you had any ideas where I can go to next that would be. Also there were only 2 Julia Mccarthys that came to New Zealand and one was already married .So the Julia on the ship Doric 1884 must be her and she was pregnant when she immigrated here.I will keep searching.

                                         Kindest Regards

                                             Joan

Dear Joan, I have made contact with a man from Monagea who has studied a lot of the local history. He has taken Moses details and is going to talk to some of the older people in the parish to try to find the Mc Carthy family there who have Moses as a family name. He seems hopeful. I have my fingers crossed for you! He lives about an hour away from me and is a lovely gentle man who loves to help people.

How is the research going at your side of the world?

Let me know that you have received this message and if you have an email address I could reach you on that would be great.

Warm wishes

Martine

Hi Martine

Thanks so much for going to all that bother for me.Not sure if I'm any further ahead.The birth record for Julia was not the one I was looking for so I have made contact again with lady in Register Office and have sent some other details to her and asked for a search to be done.Will see what comes out of that.I have found that Julia had another child just after she married but again the record is not oin nline with other births.So will phone our office here in Palmerston North and hopefully get some answers there.Could you please pass on my sincere thanks to this absolutely lovely gentleman who is so willing to help.

My email address is wjoan36@gmail.com

                                    Kindest Regards

                                        Joan

Will do Joan and thanks for your email address.

Will be in touch as soon as...

Martine

Dear Joan, I emailed you but got no reply. Are you well?

Can you check your emails, try the spam box in case it went in there.

My contact in Monageagh is happy for you to write to him directly but he needs ALL the information you have on Moses, marriage, his hotel etc. childrens names

Do check for my email and email me back so that I can send you his address.

Thinking of you

Martine

Hi Martine

First I apoligise for not getting back until now.I had an accident at home and ended up in hospital having to have an operation on my hand.I had few days with my daughter after coming out.I am getting better but it is slow progress like my typing.I didn't receive your email.I will give it to you again just in case I gave you wrong address it's wjoan36@gmail.com.I would like to communicate with your contact on Moses McCarthy.Hoping this finds you well Martine and thank you again.I am also happy to help anyone over there with any information that they may need from here.

                                                     God Bless

                                                        Joan

Dear Joan, I am sorry to hear you had a fall and hope you will be right as rain very soon. I have just emailed you with the title IrelandXO and Moses Mc Carthy so hopefully you have that now.

Do let me know how you get on. I do so hope you find Julia.

Martine