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My disappointment might cloud cloud my judgment.  But how is it possible that family legend and lore and even "records" and headstones can be wrong?  Perhaps they were obfuscating English blood?  That might explain things.  Or had they married without benefit of clergy?  Perhaps they'd liberated others' possessions?  I'll try to check Welsh and Canadian records, but doubt they'll be as reliable as you have been. thank you again Roger McDonnell.  I'll consider your advice re DNA test, under the circumstances. 

 

 

jfitz68@sbcglobal.net

Wednesday 19th Oct 2016, 09:14PM

Message Board Replies

  • Castlemore Roscommon, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘

    Wednesday 19th Oct 2016, 09:27PM
  • Dates on gravestones are often wrong. The information on them is only as accurate as that given by the person who paid for the gravestone inscription (frequently many years after the persons death). People were also a bit vague about their ages in the 1800s. They placed little importance on accurate dates of birth etc, and so often they can be out by a year or two. Or more.

    Tradition was to marry in the bride’s church, so not necessarily where she later lived with her husband. Not all church records have survived and of those that have, not all are on-line. Some are also barely legible. So no great conspiracy to hide anything, just records with gaps.

    I had a look at the statutory marriage records for England & Wales (which start in 1837). No sign of James and Elizabeth marrying there, so it seems more likely they married in Ireland. (Unfortunately statutory marriage registration for RC marriages didn’t start there till 1864, hence the difficulty you now face).

    The two children born in Rhymney should be easy enough to trace as statutory birth registration also started in England & Wales in 1837. If you give me their names and the second child’s year of birth, I’ll see if I can help you locate the birth certificates.

    Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘

    Thursday 20th Oct 2016, 12:52PM
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    Great!  My information has Hannah Fitzgerald born in Rhymney Wales on July 8, 1854, first born of James Fitzgerald and Elizabeth Morrissey.  Second born was Matthew Fitzgerald on February 3, 1857, also in Rhymney.

    Thereafter comes my great-grandfather Edward Redmond Fitzgerald, born November 3, 1858 in Montreal Quebec Canada. Two more children were born in Montreal in the next five years. We have good records establishing the Canadian children's births and lives.(At least I think we do)

    With American political theater currently making us all a bit loony,  reality is difficult to determine.

     

    John Fitzgerald 

    1832 w Farwell Ave

    Chicago, Illinois    USA

    60626

    jfitz68@sbcglobal.net

    jfitz68@sbcglobal.net

    Thursday 20th Oct 2016, 03:25PM
  • John,

    I have found what looks to be the birth for Mathew Fitzgerald. The birth was registered in Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorgan in Jan – March 1857, Volume 11a, page 285. Merthyr is about 5 miles from Rhymney and is likely the civil registration town for that general area.

    I did not find a birth for Hannah in Merthyr Tydfil but there is one registered in Abergavenny that is possibly her. Abergavenny and Merthyr are fairly close and so possibly that’s where the family were living in 1854.  That part of South Wales was a big coal mining area and miners moved around a fair bit. (I assume the Fitzgeralds will have gone there for work. Thousands of Irish migrants did the same).

    The birth that might be your Hannah was registered in Abergavenny, Monmouthshire, Jul – Sept 1854, Volume 11a, page 90.

    You can order copies of those birth certificates from GRO in Southport, Lancashire. I think they cost £9.25 (sterling) each (USD $11.30 or thereabouts). See:

    http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/

    They usually take about 2 to 3 weeks to arrive.

    If the Abergavenny birth is not your Hannah, then the next nearest match was Ann Fitzgerald born Merthyr Tydfil July - Sept 1853, Volume 11a, page 2591. So that’s exactly 1 year earlier than the information you have. Ann and Hannah can be interchangeable, so I would give it consideration. (The page number seems very large and may not be correct but that’s what’s on Ancestry’s index).

     

     

    Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘

    Friday 21st Oct 2016, 09:46AM
  • Thank you so much.

    jfitz68@sbcglobal.net

    Saturday 22nd Oct 2016, 02:31PM

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