Mc Cartney Gernon Ancestors

Hi Celtic Spirit, hope you did not have too much of it for the New Year. I have looked at some of your information and see only 4 Children on Roots Ireland for Richard and Elizabeth in Darver, one Patrick is not on your list, born 1872, (they are Peter; Brigit; Judith and Patrick)  I looked for Mary Anne and see only one Mary McCartney born in Cullenstown but parents James McCarthney and mother different too. In 1864 civil registration for all BMDs commenced in Ireland and is free to view online for births to 1916, deaths to 1965 and marriages to 1941 I think, some certs for early marriage and deaths are not viewable but all births, you just sign in and select civil records as church records are not complete excepth for Dublin and Kerry and some Cork. https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/ 

I think your Elizabeth is from Darver as the marriage takes place there, normally in brides parish. Also I see children born in Meath with a mother Elizabeth Gernon during this period. 

Elizabeth's death should be on the civil record as the famine was definitely over by 1852 and to a large extent by 1848. Also her husband is listed as a farmer so assume they had the means of upkeep. However the only death that might be has all the incorrect age of 75 in 1939 and she is a widow.

Will revert later as I must go out now.

Regards

Pat

Hi CS getting familiar now using initials, i see Elizabeth born in 1867 on Irish Genealogy and also Mary in 1868 as stated by yourself. So the only new one is Patrick in 1872.

I cannot locate Richards death on Irish Genealogy where did you find it. I do see on the Louth Genealogical Sources website (http://www.jbhall.freeservers.com/index.html ) there is a graeyard inscription in Richardstown graveyard for a Richard McCartney and I think one other but without going there I do not know what is on the inscription as it is not transcribed on the site and I have not got it iin any of the books I have.

Griffiths Valuation shows two properties rented in Cullenstown by a Peter McCartney from a William Greene so assume he is Richards Father, there are no Gernons in Cullenstown as you can also search by locaton or places. (  http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=nameS…) I did find an Elizabeth Garlon born in a place called Dunmahon in 1838 and is possibly your Elizabeth but we need parents to be certain, (parents are Michael Garlon & Bidgit Soraghan) and  the name Gernon is a variant of Garland for some reason according to McLysaghts book on Irish Surnames. (unusual but not unheard of). if we could locate the inscription we might get a year but without even a map of the graveyard in Richardstown it would be difficult. She does not appear in the death on Irish genealogy even lookng at all the McCartney deaths from 1870 unless the McCartney is wrongly transcribed. And it is, on Irish Genealogy she dies in 1872 but age at death is given as 89 whereas on Find My Past it is given as 39, born in 1833, she appears to die shortly after Patrick is born and I see Patrick died aged 12 in 1884 from heart disease, see cert on Irish Genealogy. On the 1901 the census has Richard living with his son and his wife plus one child and two servants (they may have purchased the land under the Land Purchase Act).

So finally we found her, if you wish to look for relatives there there is a Louth Genealogy Facebook page if you want to search for living relatives, it is private and well moderated but jsut apply to join. Feel free to return with follow up if you think I can assist. The census is here but select 1901 as 1911 is default. http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/ 

Good Luck

Pat

Many thanks Pat for all your information. Richard's death is misspelt when recorded -  McArtney. He was still living with Peter. He died on 8th February 1910 aged 77.

Regarding Elizabeth, I have the marriage entry with surname as Gernon. I have uploaded the image. I was searching again for her birth. There are two entries in Kilsaran for 1812 and 1813. However this would make her 46 / 47 when she married. There are also two entries in  Tallanstown / Haggardstown 1846 but then she would only have been 13 when she was married!

Mary Anne McCartney was born on 13th June 1869. I have uploaded the record. Elizabeth McCartney was born on 1stA pril 1867. Elizabeth married her cousin Michael Gernon who was born 21st July 1864 Dromiskin. His parents were Thomas Gernon (1818 )  and Bridget Kerr (1837). I am not sure when Elizabeth and Michael got married. I remember someone saying they had gone away and got married. There is an entry in the 1901 census in Lanarkshire for Michael and Elizabeth Gernon. They returned to Killincoole and Lizzie is regcorded in the 1911 census with her two sons Thomas (1903) and Michael (1904) my grandfather, Her husband Michael died April 1905 and his father Thomas died January 1905. 

Regards

Paula

Hi CS, interesting, I should mention the death in 1872 of Elizabeth while not viewable currently can be purchased for very little at https://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Apply-for-Certificates.aspx You can order online and they will email it, you only require the photocopy of the entry not the full legal one which is €20 rather than €4 which is all you need. 

I have to go again suddenly visitors, but the birth in mentioned of a Garlon which I will relook at has a witness or sponsor a Bridgit Kerr. Will revert later.

Pat

Hi CS I am back in case you have not noticed!!!! I took the name synomyn or variant by the horns and searched Roots for a father Michael Gernon and mother Bridget Soraghan and got 7 children, I have looked at maybe 5 certs and all appear to be in Dunmahon, Haggardstown with different surnames or different spellings of the same name, they were as follows using the spellings shown for surname but mothers name is also spelled as Soraghan and Soron and Soro, remember they could probably not write and the priest or his acolyte would be writing based on the sound.

Michael Garlan 1843

Mary Garlan 1845

Rose Gernon 1841

Ann Garlan 1839

Elizabeth Garlan 1839 Michael Soraghan and Bridget Kerr were sponsors.

Judith Gernon 1850

Margaret Garland 1833

Think about it for a bit and see if you think it is possible other wise we have no other leads unless you do DNA and as I have recently done it I must admit it is confusing and not the instant answer people think it is but you could look at matchs and search Soraghan to see what comes up or seek the assistance of an expert. 

I looked at the census for Lizzie and see she was 4 years married in 1911 and widowed so will have a look online for her marriage overseas. Getting back to the probable early death of the first Elizabeth, I am attending an evening class on genealogy and local history and it was said that death in childbirth was common in woman who lived through the famine as in their growing years the pelvic area did not properly develop because of malnutrition at a particular age. Hope that is not too much information. 

Regards

Pat

Celtic SpiritHello Pat

i have not being on my laptop for a few days. Thanks for all this information regarding the Gernon relations. It is very possible that Elizabeth Garlan is the correct choice. I have not done any dna test, however two of my sisters have! I will continue to explore all the paper records first. Now I think I will explore all the Darver & Dromiskin results for Gernon and male a note of them showing who the sponsors were at weddings / baptisms to see what other relations there are. CS

Good Luck, you have our work cut out then. There is a book only available in the library published in 1903 on the parishes of Kilsaran, Dromiskin and somewhere else. I will look at it at some stage to see wha tis in it, it does include graves I know. You are unfortunate with all the names, even the Soraghan one is sometimes Sorohan, have it in my own line somewhere but in the west of Ireland. I see in McLysaghts that Soron is also a synonym of it. 

regards

Pat

Hi Pat

Many thanks for all your help. Will have to make a trip sometime. Would be good to know the name of the book for future reference. 

Celtic Spirit 

Hi CS this is the book, should be at least in Drogheda and Dundalk library. My recollection is it is subtitled with the parishes of Dromiskin and some more etc

Leslie, Rev. James B., History of Kilsaran Union of Parishes, Dundalk 1908. Reprinted Dundalk 1986

There is also a brief history of some names, must look it up again myself or see if I can find it to buy.

Regards

Pat

Hi CS was in the library on Wednesday looking over that book for something else and saw a piece on Gernon name and photographed the first bit which I attach, I find it interesting but you may not. It also appears in the bit I read on the name that up to about 1700 Castlebellingham was Gernonstown, so you had a town of your own. 

I will try and aquire the book but you cannot take it from the library but know someone who may have it for sale.

Pat

Hi just stumbled across this page. Richard and Elizabeth were my great great grandparents. I had trouble finding Elizabeth's records but your postings will be a great help. Richard's son Peter was my great grandfather who then had another Peter(my grandfather). My father Brendan is his son. Be great to hear the history of another line of the family. We tend to the grave in the old Darver graveyard. No headstone. Alan McCartney.

Hello Alan, hopefully Celtic Spirit got the notificaton and had not switched them off for this thread, oddly I was searching another query on the area when you posted and the poster sent me a link to the above book online so hope it works for you, https://archive.org/details/historyofkilsara00lesl/page/98

Good Luck,

Pat

Cheers Pat I've connected with Paula through louth genealogy on facebook as you suggested above. Thanks again.

Alan.